I don't want to tank dungeons anymore...

[Sicno]

If you just want to do as much as the content designed for you to do, you're not a good player. Why don't try to do more than the standard? It's like someone who always aim to pass the exams with the minimum score. sure, you can pass but which company is going to hire someone like that after they graduated with the minimum requirement? same thing, why should the majority of players want to play with a player like that?

That's the magic of duty finder: you don't choose who your partners will be. You're not "applying" like you would do a job. This isn't even a job, it's a game, people are here to have fun and not to stress themselves. And different people may have different opinions on what "fun" is and have different paces or opinions on how to do something, and when they clash you can discuss and get to an agreement. If not then well, too bad, but someone has to make a decision and I think the one who can (and will) take the blows and who has the tools for keeping aggro from others is perfectly fit for making that decision as long as he's not being a moron and making idiotic decisions.

If you're that concerned about performance and about cherrypicking who is objectively better for a task then party finder is waiting for you.

[Pyroxene]

Each time I get in heavensward's dungeons, a dps or more ofter the healer (yeah the healer) just go foward and pull the mobs before me. I tell them not to, they get mad and start blabbering things like he doesn't have time for this and I should be pulling more. I am not a bad tank, in fact, I usually don't have issue with more bobs at once.

My point is I should be the one getting them and not the others just because they want ultra fast clear. I like taking time and not having a cluster hell in front of me. Why people needs to always be super fast with everythings and not actually enjoy the game? Playing a game or a MMO shouldn't be at any time a chore.

Peoples seems to forget that video games is for fun, not stats/numbers.

They really need to sticky this kind of thread....

Yes its bad, regardless of your role and no you shouldn't have to tollerate it.

That said, it is duty finder (possibly roulette as well) you are signing up for the unknown, some people who want to watch scenes, some who want to plow through and get it over with.

Find a group within your FC that plays similar to you if the above doesn't appeal to you.
Those are your options, nothing comes without a cost, there is always something needed to be given up in return

[Misutoraru]

With this current generation, if a tank isn't dealing good damage while holding aggro, he/she are NOT doing their job. Sucks, though, because I'm a pure VIT-based PLD.

the new Healer must DPS, tank must give high DPS meta is so toxicated
i stop doing dungeon after 50 with my tank and stop doing dungeon with my healer after 55
until SE fix that

[KingOfAbyss]

Some people don't find 'taking time' fun.

I'm not on the game to baby sit or be patiently waiting for the tank to mark everything, have a coffee and smoke, then use his cool downs and assimilate aggro. I just want my run done smoothly because on some days, I have limited time to play or have other things on the game I'd rather do than to wait for someone to 'take time'. This is extremely annoying as a healer with a squishy tank who will die within 1-3 seconds of a pull but require 1-20 seconds of waiting each pull due to unknown reasons.

I feel an option for fast clears/ experienced or non experienced in duty finder would solve the casual/ cut scene complication we keep having.

Blame SE for putting 90 min in dungeons.

lol babysit, wake up dude.

taking time fun? you play.. an MMO or any game, you are wasting your time. If you cannot see it, then stop playing anything and go work 80 hours per week.

if you have 'other things' to do in the game, then do them, and if you are 'ready' to spend 90 mins on a dungeon, then go inside.

And yes, this community sucks at creating a division between hardcore players that wants everything done in 5 mins, so they can do everything and get bored 1 week after a new patch, and the casual (or midcore) that enjoys the game.

So the solution?

** the DF. Get a nice group of people together, then you can do 4, 8 and even 24 stuff, without the rage of anybody else.

Weird cause as an MMO, we should all play along, nicely.

The truth is wayyyy different.

As Some other stated OP, if they want to pull, let them be, switch to OT mode. if they kick you, they might have to wait versus you that will have instant queue.

I'm like you, taking my time, which for me is going smoothly so far, commendations are flowing so I must be doing ok.

Best of luck.

[Noxifer]

No one is incapable of pulling more than 1 group at a time. By 60 if you haven't figured out how to hold hate and use cooldowns, then you're doing something very very wrong, and you should work on that instead of just throwing up your hands, giving up on getting better, and inconveniencing every group you ever get.

You don't need to pull everything, but there's honestly no reason to pull one group at a time. Y'all can keep coming up with whatever excuses you want, but at the end of the day it's just laziness or bad play. And neither of those things are your group's fault.

At 60, yes. But on the other hand, "HW dungeons" doesn't only include level 60 dungeons. It includes the rest of the 51+ dungeons as well, where people are usually still levelling their jobs. And there is one reason to pull just one group at a time -- the first time you run the place, before you know what's coming and what the mobs put out, and whether any of them have any AoEs or other attacks that need to be kept in mind/stunned/dodged, and when you're usually still very undergeared. Sure, the party gets the warning that someone is new that time, but that doesn't seem to stop some people from assuming that it's gonna be okay to speedrun anyway.

And if you have DPS who no matter the size of the group still only go for single-target damage, that's also a reason to pull one group at a time, though those times you're rarely going to get someone shouting at you to go faster ^_~

Also, I never really specified "one group at a time" -- I merely said "pulling more than you're comfortable with". If you're comfortable pulling one, two or three groups, whatever the reason for that "limit" is, it's quite possible you could pull more. And with a group (and especially healer) you trust, you can stretch that limit. But I wouldn't be quite that willing to stretch it for people who pre-pull for me or cuss me out for not doing it. For someone asking, sure, I can definitely pull more -- and if we wipe we can laugh it off and either try again or stick to my limit (which is not one group at a time other than such times as I mentioned above, before you make that assumption ^^; ), and if we don't wipe, we can laugh at my hesitance and then go with the stretched limit or maybe even try to stretch it a bit further =)

But the OP was more about preference, so basically "slow" runs with a group that could handle bigger pulls/less pauses just fine, but doesn't do them because the tank doesn't like big pulls.

Not really, at least not the way I read it. It was more about the rudeness of strangers making his decisions instead of asking ^^;
And no, I don't expect much from DF these days ^^; I mean, I'm not the most social of creatures and rarely talk in DF either outside of "hello =D" and "ty for the run ^^", but I still prefer open communication when it comes to coordinating the run rather than needing to guess what's expected/desired. Especially when you can't hear people's sighs and groans and headdesks IRL ^^;

But fine, back to original topic? If your healer pulls, just pick it up. Your healer knows what he can or can't heal. If they pick up more mobs, then the problem is that you didn't beat them to it.

...no. It's like when you're driving, and your front-seat passenger leans over and decides to tear the wheel out of your hands because they think you should go right instead of straight forward because "that way is shorter/faster". Sure, a rare few times it's beneficial, for example if there's a wall or a drop straight ahead, but most times it's only going to cause problems. The problem then isn't that you should have turned right before they thought of it. It's that your passenger didn't open their mouth to say something about it.
(And no, I know that a healer isn't exactly a passenger in the group, but the healer also isn't the one supposed to pull.)

[HalfLegend]

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone support! This tread is really interesting in many ways.

Keep the comments flowing!

[Almalexia]

My rule of thumb as a tank: If someone pulls "for" me once, I will ask them not to pull for me.

If it happens again or that person gets uppity, I will drop tank stance and just dps- thereby letting them tank since they want to tank so badly.

My rule of thumb as a DPS: If someone deals damage "for" me once, I will ask them not to attack for me.

If it happens again or that person gets uppity, I will drop my Fists of Fire and just 123 -thereby letting them DPS since they want to DPS so badly.

My rule of thumb as a healer: If someone heals "for" me once, I will ask them not to heal for me.

If it happens again or that person gets uppity, I will drop my Cure and just spam Regen- thereby letting them heal since they want to heal so badly.

Do you see how silly and selfish this makes you sound?

[Miste]

Do you see how silly and selfish this makes you sound?

Not saying what they said was right....but if you are gonna call them names like silly and selfish out of no where for stating their opinion at least make examples that make sense.

You can't compare pulling mobs as a non-tanking job to healing/DPSing...iirc there is only one tank, one healer, and two DPS in a dungeon group and no one else can "heal" for the healer, unless you got some weird BLM or SMN who feels like spamming physick instead of DPSing but that alone would be reason enough to just drop group. Especially if they ignore people asking them to stop doing that and do the job they are there for.

Not sure about other DPS but when I am on DPS I rarely have the other random DPS stranger in my group reach through the internet and try to DPS for me...just saying...

They said they attempt to reason with them that they won't tolerate people pulling extra for them and if they don't listen then they leave. That's way more polite than some players I have come across. People do have the right to leave if they want. Some players may know when it is okay to pull more, but some don't. As I have said before people pull extra sometimes without actually knowing the tanks available cool downs and MP/TP etc so some tanks just do not want to deal with those players.

Bottom line is if you want the tank to pull more just ask them so they can do so at the proper pace and PREPARE for it with using their cool downs properly and managing TP/MP. If they aren't ready for it (the healer might not be ready for it either!) you could wipe the group, you know, since it wasn't a group decision. Someone else made a decision on their own for the entire group.

[Malevicton]

At 60, yes. But on the other hand, "HW dungeons" doesn't only include level 60 dungeons. It includes the rest of the 51+ dungeons as well, where people are usually still levelling their jobs. And there is one reason to pull just one group at a time -- the first time you run the place, before you know what's coming and what the mobs put out, and whether any of them have any AoEs or other attacks that need to be kept in mind/stunned/dodged, and when you're usually still very undergeared. Sure, the party gets the warning that someone is new that time, but that doesn't seem to stop some people from assuming that it's gonna be okay to speedrun anyway.

You've still had 51 levels of practice... you don't need to pull everything, but pulling as little as possible at 51 is still playing way safer than is warranted by any but the absolute worst players.

But of course it's taboo to call people bad, because that makes me an elitist.

That driving analogy is ridiculously hyperbolic. That would kill you. Having to pull mobs off of a healer is extremely easy, just run over and unleash. It's annoying, but like ripping the steering wheel out of someone's hands? Lol no.

1) I don't consider asking to go faster than originally intended in the dungeon's design to be straight out "valid criticism". It falls under some weird grey area where people can normally handle with no problem but that's still not how it was conceived in the first place.

What is up with all the secret developers in this thread? This is like the third person I've seen who has never before known insight into dungeon design.

I'm pretty sure the devs have noticed that people do big pulls. I'm pretty sure they take that into account, hence all the gates and junk.

w/e apparently this thread is just gonna pat all the crap tanks on the head, tell them they're special snowflakes and move on, confident that we're all such nice and helpful people. I'll see y'all in the next bad/primadonna tank thread, when everyone's wondering how these people could possible have turned out exactly how they were told to.

[Luvbunny]

As much as I love this game... there is a BIG BIG problem when it comes to how things are handled. We could use variety of techniques and not being put into the idiotic dumb trinity roles. They are here for safety net, so that the casuals on robot mode can clear content in a more safe consistent manners. But please, give us ways to use our cross class abilities so that other DPS can become tanks or healers if they want to. Seriously there is no reasons why DRG, MNK, NIN and SMN cannot be tank. And WHM, SCH, AST should be able to become full fledge DPS if they want to. WAR, PLD, and DRK should be able to go full DPS with some tanking abilities...

Let's face it, most players DO NOT want to tank! They however do not mind go kill everything and anything... So might as well let us customize so we could be the designated "tank" or healer (albeit to limited degree compared to real tank or healer) but can be used to clear some contents without having to resort to the trinity set up every single time...