I don't want to tank dungeons anymore...

[Sicno]

And what about the selfish diva dps who think their stacks or enochian are the most important thing in the entire dungeon and if you don't make them happy they start pulling on their own?

[MicahZerrshia]

You obviously don't play anything who have stacks to worry about.

So so so many tanks stand there, full tp, full mp, full hp and twiddle their thumbs til your stacks wear off for no reason then complain that dps is lacking....

[Eothas]

but with the (healer) queues getting longer, it might not be good idea to annoy the tank.

I play both (healz and tank), queues are about the same, the Primadonna Diva tank card will never work against me.

It's not a good idea to annoy ANYONE. Also, I can finish ex roulette without a tank if really necessary.

[IndigoHawk]

... Tanks are selfish divas who think the dungeon runs around them and everyone should cater to them or they'll just drop and requeue faster than an average DPS would without a penalty.

Dungeons revolve around tanks, because there's a tank shortage. Many people don't want the responsibility to tank or are driven from it by people with bad attitudes. Tanks deserve slack because they're doing a role few people want to do.

Also, you're good enough that you don't even need tanks, so best practices don't apply to you. However, the best practice for duty finder is let the tank lead, pull, and don't push faster than they can or want to go. That has the highest chance of success and will result in the fastest dungeons on average by reducing wipes and time spent arguing.

Only a selfish diva would push tanks too fast and drive them from the role and make queues longer for everyone.

[Archaell]

I play both (healz and tank), queues are about the same, the Primadonna Diva tank card will never work against me.

It's not a good idea to annoy ANYONE. Also, I can finish ex roulette without a tank if really necessary.

That's good point. The card does not work if you are willing to discard it even at price of getting kicked.

I do my stuff mostly on WHM and it seems that healer ranks are increasing - at least on Chaos.

[Sicno]

You obviously don't play anything who have stacks to worry about.

So so so many tanks stand there, full tp, full mp, full hp and twiddle their thumbs til your stacks wear off for no reason then complain that dps is lacking....

Hi, lvl 60 MNK here \o and while it's bad to lose GL it's not the end of the world either.

Edit: also have you thought that maybe that tank is not there just thinking about the immortality of the crab but instead may be thinking of how to do the next pull or checking his inventory or checking other players or waiting for a patrolling enemy to reach a certain spot?

[Noxifer]

I hope there was some basic communication between the party and the archer before you just let him die. :3

There was -- he was repeatedly asked to let the tank do the pulling. Initially politely, then more and more directly each time he did it. We just got fed up with him not listening.

So many dungeons (Expert Roulette) that the tank has just wandered AFK for ten minutes - cause hey he didn't wait 15-45 minutes to join the queue, so it's not like he couldn't have gotten a drink or taken a crap beforehand with all that extra time - and I just tell the DPS to pull. I can clear everything up to the boss of ANY dungeon without a tank. Hell, when queue as a full party, we often don't even bring a tank, and I'm not talking about Copperbell, but Neverreap (sure this doesn't work for all of them).

There's a difference between pulling for someone who is clearly not there (and dealing with those mobs while waiting for that someone to come back and start doing their job again), and pulling for someone who IS there and is doing their job -- just not at the pace you prefer. Like I've mentioned before, I tend to go with the "you pull it; you tank it" mindset, at least if said pulling is intentional. I mean, mistakes happen, and sometimes a dps accidentally moves into a wandering mob's field of vision. And in those cases I have no issues taking aggro off of them. But when healers or dps intentionally pull in more mobs into a pack than I had anticipated, I just don't like it. And sure, if you pull a mob or two and actually tank them yourself, that's fine, but it still adds to my stress levels as a tank ^^;

Back when I was a young and insecure tank (shortly after the beta, in other words), it happened too many times in the first four dungeons. Still remember the time in Halatali when the healer pulled in all three of the wandering bombs when I'd pulled the dullahan-wannabe and the three imps back. Being "a good tank" (no, not in the skill sense, but in the "gotta save the squishies!" sense), I flashed and all that, and was subsequently blown up when overlapping self-destructs meant I had no chance of getting out of all of them in time. Then the healer proceeded to blame me for dying, commenting that it's an "easy pull". No, it's not. Not when you panic because too many mobs are pulled into the fight. Not when none of the dps actually have any AoE capabilities. And not when you're still learning the game.
If I'd known then what I do now, I would have let the healer deal with the bombs all on their own and just continued focusing on the mobs I'd pulled, but meh.

Sure, dps and healers have more AoE capabilities at 50+ (duh), and healers have more ohshit buttons. But the core behaviour of deciding for me what I'm comfortable pulling is still just as rude. Especially when it's done at the very first pull (like that first island in Neverreap). Due to bad experiences in the gearing-up rush just before Alex Normal was released, I never went into Ex roulette solo. Unless I had at least a healer I knew (preferrably one or two dps in addition to that), I just didn't do it. *shrugs*

[XiXiQ]

And what about the selfish diva dps who think their stacks or enochian are the most important thing in the entire dungeon and if you don't make them happy they start pulling on their own?

the new level 60 stuff has made this an issue in some cases. I've not noticed it much with bard, but with blm and mch tanking does matter more. blm doesn't have the luxury of using enochian every trash pull, and small pulls of only 2-3 is a waste of their dps. Mch needs to place turrets depending on the pull, and I see plenty of tanks pulling mobs out of their aoe range anyway. I'm not much of a fan of any of the level 60 stuff, so I don't blame the tanks, it's just more crap they shouldn't be dealing with.

[Shai]

Dungeons revolve around tanks, because there's a tank shortage. Many people don't want the responsibility to tank or are driven from it by people with bad attitudes. Tanks deserve slack because they're doing a role few people want to do.

Also, you're good enough that you don't even need tanks, so best practices don't apply to you. However, the best practice for duty finder is let the tank lead, pull, and don't push faster than they can or want to go. That has the highest chance of success and will result in the fastest dungeons on average by reducing wipes and time spent arguing.

Only a selfish diva would push tanks too fast and drive them from the role and make queues longer for everyone.

No, they really don't. This is the "diva" attitude I'm talking about. Tanks shouldn't get special treatment (cut slack).

Man, when a tank joins up and says "Hey, I never ran this dungeon before - you guys mind if I do simple pulls just to get the hang of it?" Sure, man. Go for it. Very few people care about that. All I ever cared about at all in this thread is TANKS WHO WASTE MY DAMN TIME like they got all the time in the world. I'm not sitting there demanding speed runs, but I am saying there's a threshold for when a tank isn't doing his job, and the party can call him out on it by pulling for him while he stands there diddling around not doing his job (pulling).

[Evangela]

It's so funny how tank players still think that other roles have to wait very long to get in a duty.