What they mean by "change the damage calculations of tanks"?

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Unless str doesn't affect attack power, like it doesn't for bards or healers. That's an obvious problem, I don't think it would be overlooked by the devs. (I think) they are trying to address the disparity between full str and full vit tanks. They will homogenize the stats, likely around their intended 2 tanks = 1 dps, so you don't have some tanks doing 400 dps and others doing 1000. I think they would like to close the gap, instead of 400/1000 bring it closer to say 500/600 or 600/700. Raise the minimum, reduce the maximum; however they choose to do it.

Well if that is the case. Some DPS are doing 400 whilst others are doing 1400. We should close the gap and make them do closer to 800/900.

Do you see an issue with this yet? Balance should not be made out of laziness and bad players. That is poor in a design and development standpoint and all that does is make people quit/leave the game.

[Jonnycbad]

DPS classes should do more then just DPS. They should have their own utility and a lot of them do have utility. Defense is a utility.

What utility does DRG have before Battle Litany? Disembowel? I mean, WAR has a slashing debuff, could still bring 7 WARs and have more or less the same damage/utility.

[whiskeybravo]

Well if that is the case. Some DPS are doing 400 whilst others are doing 1400. We should close the gap and make them do closer to 800/900.

Do you see an issue with this yet? Balance should not be made out of laziness and bad players. That is poor in a design and development standpoint and all that does is make people quit/leave the game.

No, because the issue in this example isn't due to stats or gear.

The balance is players who can spend millions on melded gear to create an enormous disparity between players who can't.

In essence, what I was saying is, if they swap VIT and STR, a full fending gear WAR will have the same attack power as a full slaying gear WAR, but ALSO have the HP of a fending gear WAR.

I just think you were putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. If they swapped vit/str then the full str war is losing on damage and hp, assuming str would not have the same value as it currently does. I think that if attack power scaled off vitality, str wouldn't matter, it would be a dead stat like dex. Or have a minimal effect like determination.

[Jonnycbad]

In essence, what I was saying is, if they swap VIT and STR, a full fending gear WAR will have the same attack power as a full slaying gear WAR, but ALSO have the HP of a fending gear WAR. That would negate the need largely for DPS. Yes high HP doesn't=damage taken, but it creates a bigger safety net when 6-7 party members have over 25k HP vs 12-14k. Also, Fending gear has a significantly higher DEF/M.DEF over Maiming/Striking/Aiming gear. While that doesn't mean much for accessories, tanks already have higher def than DPS, so you'd have high HP, high attack power, high defense jobs. Maybe their dps is slightly below dedicated DPS, but with less strain on healers, allowing healers to DPS a lot more.

[Ashelia_Ferron]

Well if that is the case. Some DPS are doing 400 whilst others are doing 1400. We should close the gap and make them do closer to 800/900.

Do you see an issue with this yet? Balance should not be made out of laziness and bad players. That is poor in a design and development standpoint and all that does is make people quit/leave the game.

The thing is that the tank disparity in damage is from equally geared, equally skilled players in the roles.

Not comparing two different people (One being a lazy/bad DPS and one actually doing a proper rotation)

Inherently, some tanks just do more damage than others, which in a game like this with tight DPS checks, can make the difference between wiping and clearing

[Jonnycbad]

I just think you were putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. If the swapped vit/str then the full str war is losing on damage and hp, assuming str would not have the same value as it currently does. I think that if attack power scaled off vitality, str wouldn't matter, it would be a dead stat like dex. Or have a minimal effect like determination.

That's what I was implying exactly. That some people are hoping VIT becomes both the attribute that determines HP and ALSO becomes the primary attack power stat.

So similar to how STR affects MNK/DRG power and DEX affects NIN/BRD/MCH attack power, STR would be dropped from WAR/DRK/PLD damage calculations and become a dead stat, making VIT the ONLY primary stat a Tank needs to worry about. Not counting VIT, Healers and DPS only worry about EITHER STR/MND/INT and no other stat really. In a way it makes sense, since no other stat matters for healers or DPS besides MND/STR respectively (not counting VIT for obvious reasons), whereas tanks had to balance 2 stats. SE *could* make VIT both damage and HP based for tanks, but what I and others are saying is, it would make WARs as strong as they are in full STR CURRENTLY, but now with the addition of 6-7k+ extra HP.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

No, because the issue in this example isn't due to stats or gear.

The balance is players who can spend millions on melded gear to create an enormous disparity between players who can't.



I just think you were putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. If they swapped vit/str then the full str war is losing on damage and hp, assuming str would not have the same value as it currently does. I think that if attack power scaled off vitality, str wouldn't matter, it would be a dead stat like dex. Or have a minimal effect like determination.

Well, a 400 to 1200 difference isn't stats and gear either sir. So I don't see your point?

Indeed, that is why they should make crafted gear only able to have one main stat.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

In essence, what I was saying is, if they swap VIT and STR, a full fending gear WAR will have the same attack power as a full slaying gear WAR, but ALSO have the HP of a fending gear WAR.......

This is why I think there will be a new stat in 3.2 that is specific to tanks. DRG/MNK would have strength, MCH/BRD/NIN dex, BLM/SMN int, AST/SCH/WHM mind, and DRK/PLD/WAR would have "tank stat". The new stat would replace the strength slot on old gear (ie ninja rollout) and would be the main stat for damage calcs. The biggest adjustment would be to the accessories. Tanks are presently the only class whose accessories have nothing to do with the amount of attack power you generate, which is why VIT is getting left behind. But, if you completely swap the VIT on the current set of accessories to the new "tank stat" you run the risk of trimming the HP to a level that the more casual player base may not be accustomed too. SE could offset this by adding in a bit more VIT on tank left side gear starting 3.2 on forward, but there would still be a bit of a problem for the current gear available.

[Tyrial]

The thing is that the tank disparity in damage is from equally geared, equally skilled players in the roles.

The disparity shows up when you're looking at it from a MT damage perspective. As OT the only thing holding back PLD and DRK is TP. As MT DRK and WAR are pretty even, PLD falls behind again due to TP and Enmity issues. If Halone was their highest potency combo you'd be seeing somewhat different results.

[Jonnycbad]

But it wouldn't make sense because you'd have 2 primary stats on tank accessories, one for VIT and one for their 'new damage stat'.