What they mean by "change the damage calculations of tanks"?

[Donjo]

Being productive and performing a duty to its fullest is actually a "skill". Being able to produce more results from less by working harder is something I really love but it is something a lot of people seem to disagree with. Also cherry-picking another's phrases and words when they clearly said multiple things is rather annoying.

Vitality isn't a "Tank" stat, it simply gives you more health like it does everyone else. It does not reduce your damage in any way. The way this game works is you only need enough health to "not be" one shot so your healers can keep you topped off.

Tank A in VIT pretty much means "Lazy Player." They can clearly see what the two stats do and chose the one because it makes it easier for them. When going STR makes the fight shorter and makes it easier on the entire party.

God, you're hilarious. It's annoying to cherry pick statements, says the poster who completely misreads everything he sees and gets off on wild tangents that barely have anything to do with the original concept... and then cherry picks statements in their next reply. By the way, I did properly address everything you said to me. You just failed to read it properly again.

I could explain why Vitality is the Tank's Main Stat, or how it's actually safer(ie. easier) for a party if the Tank has more health rather than more strength in 97% of situations, but it would all be lost on you.

Just stop.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

God, you're hilarious. It's annoying to cherry pick statements, says the poster who completely misreads everything he sees and gets off on wild tangents that barely have anything to do with the original concept... and then cherry picks statements in their next reply.

I could explain why Vitality is the Tank's Main Stat, or how it's actually safer(ie. easier) for a party if the Tank has more health rather than more strength in 97% of situations, but it would all be lost on you.

Just stop.

I actually play a healer and tank. I find it much easier to heal a strength tank because the fights are much shorter for one and I find that most strength tanks actually pay attention to fights whilst vitality tanks usually stand in AOEs because they have the health for it.

I don't find a tank more health easier to heal at all because it doesn't make it easier, it doesn't do anything but give you more health. I find them the exact same as a vitality tank because I keep my tanks topped off regardless of their health. So I have no issue with a strength tank.

Having bloated HP just breeds laziness in most of the games content.

So, your choice?

Damage is actually important to tanking because damage improves your overall sustain, if your doing more damage your killing things faster. Unless the "mechanics" as you claim I don't know changed in the past hour I believe that dead monsters can't hurt you.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

*puts popcorn away

They could do the new accessories to be similar to how the current pentamelds run, a split between VIT and the other main stat. I know the statement was made about end game crafters being left out, but tank classes are the only ones using them for end game raids (not counting food/pots) so that argument is not very compelling and for another forum.

A straight VIT based damage formula would be flawed - the highest VIT achieved on a Paladin based on gear alone is over 1110. Strength cap on a DRG is 1070 ish. Without a near complete rework of skill potencies, buffs/debuffs, the fact that tanks would have a ridiculous amount of health and still put out the damage, and the non cookie cutter fact that tank gear would be the only class with 3 stats on it, I just think it's too much actual work to do for the devs (says the guy with no programming experience). Yes, it would be possible, but wouldn't it be easier for SE to use the existing damage formula -changed to the new stat - versus doing a complete to rework in order to account for more available VIT?

The only way to prevent tanks from using slaying gear would be to either:
1- make it unequippable (won't happen)
2 - Change the tank meta to turtle meta (and lose many DPS to tank converts in the process, and could cause issues in current end game)
3- Make strength worthless on tanks and go to VIT (possible - see above)
4- Come up with a Tank Specific stat for damage, convert strength on present left side gear to the new stat, AND put it on the accessories - just like the Ninja release (because SE hates following the same pattern they have already done before)

TL;DR
New tank stat is easiest

[Alahra]

New tank stat is easiest

Modifying the damage calculation so that stat impact is split in some fashion between STR and VIT would have similar results without the need to incorporate an entirely new stat into the game, adjusting all of that gear, and so on. So long as VIT provided more benefit than STR (a 40/60 split or something, perhaps, but the exact numbers would vary, of course), Fending accessories would be preferred over Slaying. This would potentially be accompanied by an adjustment of how much HP VIT provides, but they wouldn't necessarily have to change that. Tanks are already using pentamelded accessories at the highest levels of play, so they may just be looking to make that the new "baseline" for future raids.

[whiskeybravo]

Tanks are already using pentamelded accessories at the highest levels of play, so they may just be looking to make that the new "baseline" for future raids.

It depends how SE views current tank damage. Did they intend for tanks to use crafted items (or all slaying) such as they have, or do they view this as sort of an exploit that they want to control better moving forward? The fact they are looking to adjust the damage output makes me wonder.

[Alahra]

It depends how SE views current tank damage.

I don't know if they view it as an exploit, persay, because players that are doing so are working well within the confines of the game. But, given their stance on melds in progression in other cases (such as VIT on crafted accessories for DPS to beat HP checks sooner than gear would allow, or crafted left side accelerating progression in FCOB), they probably don't *like* pentamelded accessories being the best option for tanks.

Pentamelds are kind of middle of the road between full Slaying and full Fending, though, so I anticipate that however tanks end up in 3.2, they'll be comparable to current tanks running full pentamelds, if only because striking some kind of middle ground is one of the most straightforward ways to please the greatest number of players.

Whatever they do, once a new baseline, built on Fending accessories, is in place, they'll tune future raid encounters accordingly. Part of the trouble now seems to be that they can't reliably anticipate what accessories tanks will use (whereas they can generally do so with all other classes).

[Ultimatecalibur]

Pentamelds are kind of middle of the road between full Slaying and full Fending, though, so I anticipate that however tanks end up in 3.2, they'll be comparable to current tanks running full pentamelds, if only because striking some kind of middle ground is one of the most straightforward ways to please the greatest number of players.

Pentamelds are a bit more powerful than that. An i150 accessory has roughly 2/3rd the primary stat of an i210 accessory resulting in pentamelds that are roughly 33% better than the highest ilevel gear available.

[Gorlioliolio]

Someone in my fc just came up with a pretty good idea for this, add a riposte/reflect type effect to parry where it returns the amount of damage that you parried to the attacker. Have it cap at 10% of your max hp, so right now PLD/DRK is around 22k with food, the only times you would hit the max damage would be big attacks (melees in a3 are 3kish except for the hand, cleaves hit much harder though). This would make stacking vit/parry a viable option for an MT to be able to contribute to the dps while also helping with the agro lost from losing strength. Allowing us to finally feel more tanky while at the same time our dps doesn't suffer too much.

The only issue is you would essentially kill your off tank dps in tank swap fights, personally I would love to see something like this though so parry is actually useful.

[SwordCoheir]

Otherwise that is a double nerf to damage.

We technically already have a triple nerf in the DPS area. Tanks already have lower DPS due to lack of attack buffs, then Tank Stance takes out another good chunk, and if we are forced to use VIT for something that only serves to hurt us further. At least the STR to VIT primary stat change would eliminate that last factor for good.

I don't find a tank more health easier to heal at all because it doesn't make it easier, it doesn't do anything but give you more health.

This is pretty true, health can go higher and higher, but a healers Cures don't scale as well as a person's HP can, which can effectively make a huge HP pools moot.

But beyond that there really isn't much else to add to the argument. A swap over to VIT can only buff tanks and make loot distribution in raids that much easier taking 3 jobs out of the equation for Slaying accessories.

[Kaisinel]

So what I have got so far on this intellectual discussion is tanks who wear slaying accessories or pentamelded accesories (because they would rather spend gil on being good and not glamour which is apparently real endgame) are EPEEN bullies (lol at that guy) to healers who would rather DPS instead of healing their tanks or can't keep up due to their retarded dps who refuse to do mechanics and tunnel vision? The later is 90% of the population mind you.

Just let me know if I missed anything important cause I think I'm spot on.