Thinking this game is a bad investment

[seekified]

The housing thing is about allowing people who actually do play to use the housing features of the game. Just because you've been an avid subscriber for however long, it doesn't make you worth more than anyone else to SE if you suddenly quit. Therefore they have to give the incentives to someone who's still there.

I don't have a house yet, but I will be getting one whenever the Ishgard wards open up (as I'm assuming they will) and if I stop playing for a few months and lose it, so be it. I get 80% of the purchase gil and most of my furniture back, losing the rest of the stuff is a fair trade for not being a slave to a game that, at the time, I didn't want to play anymore.

Committing yourself to an MMO in a way that makes you feel bad when you're not playing is not healthy, and SE's new housing rules has nothing at all to do with that.

[kamikrazy]

Semantics? The current system was not the originally intended system for personal housing, we all know this, and is currently very flawed. The players did not do this. By your analogy/example/etc, our gear, or mounts, hell even characters should be deleted within 45 days because we're not paying a dime to keep those active when we take a break or quit.

I agree with this response. And would like to add to it:

Remember that all that is necessary for a ward is a set of item names and locations. The amount of data required to host that is incredibly small, likely smaller than the size of a single character's information. If SE's system is so inefficient as to store sets of that data, then they need to improve that system. Its just data storage and nothing more. The only reality is that it is very limited because SE has chosen to make it so because they have chosen that it is not important and not worth more server space, yet they are totally okay with using that same storage space on everything else and never deleting it.

By following this logic, players characters should be deleted after 45 days, and it would be no different on SE's end, and you could still argue the same argument that they "were taking up space that someone else could use." The argument is ridiculous.

I suggest cooling down. You read my post as snide because you seem to be very emotional over the subject. Remember this conversation is about a fake house in a video game.

Don't try to paint me as the emotion one when I'm the one who logically retorted your obviously passive aggressive response. You are the one who stepped out-of-line with your "go play sims, this game isn't for you" line. And your argument of, "don't care, it's just a video game!" is also as tired and old as video games itself. The work you did towards the game is real, even if the game isn't.

1) The housing thing is about allowing people who actually do play to use the housing features of the game. Just because you've been an avid subscriber for however long, it doesn't make you worth more than anyone else to SE if you suddenly quit. Therefore they have to give the incentives to someone who's still there.

2) I don't have a house yet, but I will be getting one whenever the Ishgard wards open up (as I'm assuming they will) and if I stop playing for a few months and lose it, so be it. I get 80% of the purchase gil and most of my furniture back, losing the rest of the stuff is a fair trade for not being a slave to a game that, at the time, I didn't want to play anymore.

3) Committing yourself to an MMO in a way that makes you feel bad when you're not playing is not healthy, and SE's new housing rules has nothing at all to do with that.

1) I've countered this in the very first paragraph of this very post.

2) That's fine for you, but this topic was created as a way to illustrate the logic that an entire demographic of people are going to have. And the majority of people are going to be devastated at the loss of such a difficult to obtain reward, especially when there's basically 0% chance they will ever be able to attain it again. This fear of loss and the pressure to commit to the game forever is what causes 3). It doesn't matter what the object is in life, if you worked hard for it, you don't want to lose it. And knowing that you could lose something you worked hard for will cause many people to just not work towards it at all. In this case, many people will see everything they do in the game as working towards owning a house, and thus will see everything you do in the game pointless because they can never really own the house. They will see it as merely renting it.

And there's a great deal of people in the real world who refuse to rent houses, and see it as a waste of time and money that they could spend towards owning one.

[Lemuria]

You clearly didn't understand my argument. My argument is that players who are new who may be interested in this game because of housing will no longer be attracted when they learn that housing is something of a temporary and fleeting reward. These types of players are longterm investments. What logic you are arguing is no better than arguing for yearly expansions and cash shop heavy f2p games.

That's a very skewed and flawed logic, because it assumes that people are only interested in that one thing. What attracts players should be the game, first and foremost, not small incentives. And if these small incentives DO attract players, those players would ultimately be fleeting anyway, because once they've achieved their goal, they'd be the first to quit.

So again, they're NOT the future of the game. The future of the game lies with players who are enjoying the meat of the game, which is the storyline and the combat. Whether you agree with that or not is immaterial, because anyone not enjoying the core of the game won't be sticking around for long enough to care.

Remember that all that is necessary for a ward is a set of item names and locations. The amount of data required to host that is incredibly small, likely smaller than the size of a single character's information. If SE's system is so inefficient as to store sets of that data, then they need to improve that system. Its just data storage and nothing more.

I already detailed why this is wrong in my other post, but just for the sake of clarity, I'll quickly correct you. It's not just storage, it's constantly accessed storage. Each ward isn't just a bunch of data, it's also being constantly accessed by the residents and visitors of that area.

One last time. Traffic costs more than data. Data can be stored indefinitely and never accessed even once. Traffic requires maintenance and upkeep.

[LaylaTsarra]

Don't try to paint me as the emotion one when I'm the one who logically retorted your obviously passive aggressive response. You are the one who stepped out-of-line with your "go play sims, this game isn't for you" line.

And there were already existing threads on the housing issue on the first page. What you should have done was put your input into one of those instead of creating a special look at me thread about the same issue.

[Elim]

Don't try to paint me as the emotion one when I'm the one who logically retorted your obviously passive aggressive response. You are the one who stepped out-of-line with your "go play sims, this game isn't for you" line.

lol. wat? That's not what I said. XD But this is going in circles, you're clearly upset so I'll stop poking the bear! Have fun with whatever game you decide to play, be it this one or not.

Committing yourself to an MMO in a way that makes you feel bad when you're not playing is not healthy, and SE's new housing rules has nothing at all to do with that.

Agreed.

[kamikrazy]

Clearly you all are so hellbent on repeating your own opinions, that you are incapable of acknowledging mine. You'd rather spout petty insults of "go play another game if you don't like it" and trying to paint me as speaking for the entire population of the game when I clearly have stated many, many, many times (probably in almost every post) that I'm speaking for people like me who are into longterm investment, and not interested in short term investment and too busy trying to team up on me to come up with any logical arguments.

This is what the logical people are fighting against. You people are so fixated on the idea that you might get a house, that you've turned people who own them into your enemy, when the real enemy should be the company who is limiting them and creating these systems to instill fear in you to keep you subscribed. I think I've got my message across, and I think the failure to come up with any arguments that hold any weight reveals that I don't really need to be here anymore.

New players are the future of this game. Without new players, this game will die. Any MMO will die. The fact of the matter is that many players who heard about housing in this game got excited. Who wouldn't? Being able to play an MMO and have customizable housing? It's like 2 games in one. That was this game's edge for a lot of people. Contrary to popular belief, this game is great and doesn't need to be a Final Fantasy game to be that way. It's a great game on its own.

Which is why this is so unfortunate. This countdown timer makes the game seem like a short-term game without a longterm vision. A lot of people are going to see this countdown as just a strongarmed way to hold onto subscriptions, and not an honest feature. New people are going to research into the housing countdown and find it unreasonable and backwards from what a work-reward system in a longterm game is meant to do. They are going to see it as just as bad as deleting their characters after 45 days.

This game should be trying to attract new players, but this countdown timer is going to drive new players away as it has with me. If you want to actually make a difference in the housing situation, you should be pressuring SE to actually find a solution. This doesn't look like a solution. It's a strategy to save money by consolidating server space and make money by instilling the fear of loss in players who don't want to see their work erased. It's holding your achievements for ransom, and nothing more.

This is very bad for the game's image, and thus very bad for its finances. If players are turning away from the game before they even try it when they learn about this, and the game intentionally cuts out an entire demographic of people who may play it (as someone put it, those who play sims or animal crossing who also like MMOs) then what was the point of even having housing if the intention was to drive this demographic away?

I've made my point I think. I can't continue with rebuttals because I"m at my post limit. Later.

[YuiKitahara]

I started playing since beta test and have a house at Mist. It costs me almost 1.5 years' saving, then another months' time and energy to decorate.
And I had an important friend in game who left before we can afford a house. When I finally got one, I decorated it as what we have imaged, cosy armchair beside fireplace, snacks available when soaking water...
It means much to me.

Though I can keep login to preserve the house, it is tired when most of my friends are afk. I myself also has taken long breaks this year, but there is always a reason for me to come back -- I can find peace and recall nice time at my house, especially when real life frustrates me.
But now I'm afraid the peace will become a burden, I must count the date next time when I afk. And like kamikrazy, I can foresee that I'll lose this best memory one day.

SE has the rights to do so, I have nothing to say because there is user agreement.
I just feel...
sad

[Xeonerable_Mizu]

Actually, someone who is so likely to unsubscribe for over two months is most certainly NOT the future of this game. This game needs revenue, which it's not receiving from players who aren't paying.

I'm going to have to be cruel to be kind here. Stop whining. No, seriously. If you're logged off long enough to lose your house, then you aren't enjoying the game anyway and there's no real reason to continue playing. Stop making yourself out to be a martyr for a greater cause, because all you're really doing is denying an actual PAYING customer from chasing that same dream. We paying customers are the future of this game, since our revenue goes towards creating new content, new expansions and keeping these servers in good condition for everyone else.

So for the love of Hydaelyn, will everyone STOP pretending like they're the victims when they're the antagonists.

that has nothing to do with it sorry I can pay my sub for 6 months take 6 or 7 weeks to play other games like fall out 4 dragon age inquisition witcher 3 etc and come back. doesn't make a person any less of a paying subscriber doesn't mean I should lose a large mansion that takes some ppl years to make 40 mil on their own in the course of 6 weeks that's just ridiculous. this is not a viable solution its a band aid and until their is an actual solution this problem wont go away. with a few plots that can still be bought out by the one person the market wont change.

[IndigoHawk]

Definitely do not buy a house in this game with the new rules. It forces you to sub forever or risk losing a lot of stuff you've worked for. That's a bad deal.

However, there's a lot you can enjoy in this game. Just pretend personal housing doesn't exist, and there's only guild housing where you can use the garden and the stables.

I'm sad SE doesn't want to make a good housing system but there's plenty to like about FFXIV without housing.

[seekified]

For everyone who's against this, you do realise that the alternative to the new system is what we have now, which basically prevent anyone from buying a house ever again unless someone voluntarily demolishes theirs? SE cannot simply add more servers and network beef to cope with this, or at least they won't for some time to come. Housing is likely one of the most resource-intensive parts of this game and yet a large part of it isn't used by active players. That is simply wrong, and they're trying to fix that.