But...I...I don't wanna DPS, I'm a healer...

[416to305]

That's just the normal healing etiquette for me. You watch the fight enviroment and go into offense or support depending on what's happening. Both healers have to work together, I don't know how a title like "off-healer" can exist since the responsabilities of both healers are the same.

I agree. There's no such thing as an "off-healer", just using it in this situation to describe the healer that is doing less healing and more DPSing at that moment.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

I agree. There's no such thing as an "off-healer", just using it in this situation to describe the healer that is doing less healing and more DPSing at that moment.

Actually, there is. It's rather similar to a tank's situation where one tank takes the boss and one tank takes the adds or does heavily damaging mechanics like back in Second Coil Turn 4 (aka: Turn 8).

Personally, I wouldn't dub it "off-healer", but rather as "supportive healer". Not supportive as a healer with buffs, but to aid the "main healer" where and when it is necessary. Healers have only one primary goal: Keep the party in good shape. Staying alive is every party member's individual job, rather than the healer's job. But the number of situations where both healers are required their full attention at their healing duties are rare and short and often "fixed" somewhere at the end of the road by gear alone. These situations are often also only found in the harder content for the patch that is live. When the primary goal is met, the number one cause for wipes would be failing DPS checks under normal conditions. Be it gear checks, mechanic executions or even individual ability to perform their own role. Here is where the "supportive healer" can help contribute in. As the combined healing output requirement rarely requires both healer's maximum output, one healer or even both healers can spend more time and resources into other activities. Most of these would be helping meet the DPS checks with the current patch. If we were to look back at previous patches, healers were one of the prime picks to handle mechanics that can be passed off to the healers to handle.

[Fevelle]

...

Both healers working together to heal when needed and dpsing when not needed is far better thean having one focus on healing while the other tend to other activities. Plus, it's way more fun.
I find the term off-healer extremely misleading and using it to "teach" newcomers about their job isn't a very smart choice.

[Cynfael]

Both healers working together to heal when needed and dpsing when not needed is far better thean having one focus on healing while the other tend to other activities. Plus, it's way more fun.
I find the term off-healer extremely misleading and using it to "teach" newcomers about their job isn't a very smart choice.

On the other hand it can be quite helpful to designate certain responsibilities. Whether you call it "off-healer" or "pheasant-plucker" is irrelevant. There truly are situations where one healer (or even specifically one player) is better suited to meeting the party healing requirement, taking care of one or both tanks, DPSing specific targets, or any combination of the above. This can also change from one phase to the next.

In your average DF activity where fine distinctions are unnecessary, then I'd fall back on the sort of etiquette you described.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

snip

There's a reason why it's a thing to make one healer focus on healing and the other do both. Namely execution. Ideally you'd want both healers cast out their highest potency spells (in nearly all the cases DoTs) rather than filler spells from either healer. But this doesn't come with risks and the amount of players capable of adapting to each other so perfectly that one cleric's on and the other cleric's off are spread wide and thin. The risks? Both healers being locked in Cleric's stance when they think it's their time to do so. You could communicate this out, but this will create pointless "noise" over the chat - Be it voice or written chat. While the whole "main-healer-supportive-healer" model isn't perfect, simplicity makes it easier to work it out with less risks involved.

[Gorlioliolio]

@SaitoHikari in regards to your question

And finally, probably the most important question: Should I REALLY be using Regen that much? I refresh it all the time during fights, but I'm starting to think doing that is a bad thing (it's probably why Titan went after me).

Regen, yes unless there is 1 mob left in a trash pack and it's close to death (or a big pack where all are close to death) if the tank isn't good they might not notice it and then you get attacked by the next pack of mobs. Medica II, situationally good to keep up.

In that titan HM situation you described it is more likely that you cast medica 2, and then instead of sitting back and letting it work you also cast 2-3 medicas. I can't count the number of times whms did that on titan hm during 2.0 in my groups. Don't medica 2 until after heart, it's not needed, also shroud on CD (use first time after he lands the first time and you do your second aoe heal, might actually need to hold it slightly longer since dps can push it harder nowadays).

4 mans are an entirely different beast though, I don't have whm 60 currently but I have ast to 60 on my alt toon. What I do to get the most possible dps out is stack the living crap out of regens on the tank. As soon as they have agro established (sometimes it takes a while, so you might need to add a cure 2 in here to top them off before full dps) Synastry (Divine Seal) > Aspected Helios (Medica 2) > Aspected Benefic (Regen) > that AOE regen bubble thing (Asylum) > this part is ast only but Time Dilation (+15s to all those regens) and then that aoe stun (5 more seconds of regen plus 4 seconds of tank taking no damage) followed by as many gravities (Holy) as I can get out until I'm under 15% MP or the tank is under 30% HP > Essential Dignity (Tetra or bene if you have it) and then maintenance heals while I regen MP until fight is over. If the dps in your group don't suck the mobs will be dead, if they do suck the mobs are probably all around 60% because I can't do all the work, then I jump around not dpsing ONLY because I don't have the MP for it.

On my main toon I play as a tank, and when I see a healer who refuses to dps for whatever reason I drop tank stance and continue on like that. At least that way the healer has to actually do some work.

On topic finally.

I really don't understand why healers don't want to dps, they have the potential to put out 70% of a dps class (more in aoe situations if no aoe classes) as do tanks, so total of 3.4 dps class capabilities in any given expert dungeon.

If the healer doesn't do dps that drops to 2.7. Let's call 20 mins an average expert run with a healer dpsing. (I've been in fewer sub 15 min runs using DF than I can count on 1 hand, I don't know how lucky others are at DF)

2.7/3.4=79% of the potential dps of the group.

20/.79=25.2 minutes

So by not dpsing you essentially increase the time by 5 minutes and 12 seconds. If you do the bare minimum for experts each week to cap, that's 6 experts.

You have now wasted 31 minutes and 12 seconds of your time this week. If you do that for a year, that's 27 hours, 2 minutes, 24 seconds.

You have wasted over a day of your time by being lazy. It's bad enough that we are all wasting our time away playing this game, but you are going beyond that to waste even more of it only because you couldn't be bothered to push more than 2-3 buttons.

Edit: To anyone saying most dps don't do near 100% of their potential. I agree fully with that statement. However using that as a basis of argument is kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Because if most dps are doing 50% of their own potential (600 seems to be about average in most DF pugs I'm in, 1200+ from going in with people I know) your 70% just made it so the group is now doing 1.7/2.4 or 71% instead of 79%. From personal experience these 50%ers seem to be in almost every expert roulette. And all of those time wasting numbers just increased by about 35%.

[Tint]

I really don't understand why healers don't want to dps, they have the potential to put out 70% of a dps class (more in aoe situations if no aoe classes) as do tanks, so total of 3.4 dps class capabilities in any given expert dungeon.

that 70% of a real DPS is on a dummy without ever using any healing spell. so all your numbers are wrong, because you actually have to heal between dpsing. i heared somewhere around 300 DPS as a healer is realistic (prove me wrong, i'm on PS4 and can't see my dps). so that 5 mins are probably just 2.5 mins faster.

if i do DPS i need around 17 to 30 mins for one expert dungeon. if i don't do dps i also need 17 to 30 mins for one expert dungeon. my fastest run was btw 12 mins - only dpsing on bosses.

[Gorlioliolio]

When I run as sch I pull 1k+ on trash and usually 600+ on bosses, but my sch is only around 178 ilvl, others in here have shown their parses where they pull 700-900 on boss mobs in experts.

When I play ast my dps on trash is 90% dependant on the other dps in the group, I can pull close to 2k until my MP floors and if the actual dps suck that quickly drops to 300-400 but if they are good it maintains around 12-1300 by the end of the fight, remember this is with my first 10 seconds of the fight spent getting all my regens up and extended, so my actual dps from the point I start until I stop nuking is probably a lot higher. On bosses usually 500 or so, my ast alt is ilvl 171.

90% of dps classes are pulling 700 or less in experts from my experience.

When I run as drk I'm pulling around 1200 on trash and 950-1k on bosses (pulled a 1150 on final fractal boss once, nin/nin combo is OP for drks)

Edit: To the titan HM thing, you don't need that medica 2 on him landing, everyone will be around 90% from the initial cast alone, the regens help for the first 10 seconds but then you have 20 seconds of over healing. You only need med 2 when he starts stomping 5-6 times in a row, and that's only for MP efficiency, if you really wanted to avoid overhealing you could probably get away without a single med 2 the whole fight, especially if your partner is helping with aoe heals. In final phase the stomps are pretty much exactly 1 min apart so the sch can have their aoe regen going every single one if they are running eos.

[DarkerOrange]

that 70% of a real DPS is on a dummy without ever using any healing spell. so all your numbers are wrong, because you actually have to heal between dpsing. i heared somewhere around 300 DPS as a healer is realistic (prove me wrong, i'm on PS4 and can't see my dps). so that 5 mins are probably just 2.5 mins faster.

if i do DPS i need around 17 to 30 mins for one expert dungeon. if i don't do dps i also need 17 to 30 mins for one expert dungeon. my fastest run was btw 12 mins - only dpsing on bosses.

On SCH I can pull 700 ish single target and 1.3k+ on larger pulls, quite often matching or beating DF DPS classes.