1 Month in impressions/criticisms...

[Calypsx]

I think the Iceheart thing actuality makes sense, She is the leader of a group of sympathizers of enemies of the Holy See, so they have little reaon to humanizing her. DEhumanizing Ysaile on the other hand offeres many benefits. After all, whose side will people take, that of the religion they followed for a thousand years without knowing the real reason it came out, or a cold blooded heretic who openly aides the enemy.

Names and monikers can be an effective propaganda tool. Calling her a priestess in a therocracy would make look seem more sympathetic than effectively calling her a cold heartless bitch. The intentions of the people using the name (Thordian and his Knights) which are also clear, are also a factor.

Agreed, Ysail having the title of Iceheart makes for more sense for me given the context of the war going on. I prefer it.

[Noxifer]

I've never felt that Iceheart was an appropriate name for her, it implies things completely contrary to her character, and frankly has no positive connotations.

Hiding just in case someone hasn't finished the HW storyline yet (though there's probably plenty of spoilers already in this thread ^^; )...

Well, in retrospect, I can see how she supposedly shares the same spirit, the same 'heart' as Shiva, whose element is ice. And from there, I can see the positive connotation.

But no, without knowing the full storyline, I agree that there's little positive about it.

If you use the japanese client, each character's own way of talking is probably distinguishable enough that you can tell it's uniquely them before they finish talking.

Well, yes. But like I mentioned in a previous post I have Japanese audio but English client, since I'm far from fluent enough in Japanese (especially written Japanese) to be able to understand anything ^^; Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough in the post you quoted.

I think the Iceheart thing actuality makes sense, [...] The intentions of the people using the name (Thordian and his Knights) which are also clear, are also a factor.

Except it's not only the Ishgardians calling her that; it's her own people, too. Unless my memory completely fails me.

[Kosmos992k]

Seems like most of the posts griping about the translations are all just fundamentally flawed since they're all based on a lack of understanding of world languages. Pray and Must needs are both completely valid and frequently used ways to start sentences.

Where? I'll accept that the word 'pray' may be used on occasion as an opener in a sentence, for example, pray tell which language must needs use such constructs as "must needs". Whether or not a similar construct exists in other languages is not the issue. The issue is that this piece of language exists in the English language localization, I don't believe it is in any of the other versions. It's an archaic expression in English, and as such fits the apparent desire of the English localization team to use archaic linguistic forms to create an otherworldly fantasy setting. Still, pray tell why we must needs use it instead of simply saying 'must'.

[Morningstar1337]

Except it's not only the Ishgardians calling her that; it's her own people, too. Unless my memory completely fails me.

Now THAT I can say is a mess up by the localization team. That or the heretics appropriating the insult as a show of defiance to Ishgard's will.

[Noxifer]

Now THAT I can say is a mess up by the localization team. That or the heretics appropriating the insult as a show of defiance to Ishgard's will.

It's been a while since I played through the start of this, but I want to remember that the first mention of her name (to the WoL) was something along the lines of "they [the heretics] call her Iceheart".... But like I said, it's a long time since then, so I might be wrong. Will get there soon(ish) with one of my alts so I can refresh my memory ^^

[Tenkuu]

This would be true if it'd be part of the actual story, but it's not. The original Arch Bishop isn't even that kind of guy, he's not even a bad guy. He never used tools such as dehumanizing propaganda, that wouldn't have fit his character. For him, Iceheart was just a mere annoyance, nothing to really worry about.

Have we played through the same ending? I'm pretty sure his entire MO is dehumanizing propaganda, or more specifically, the perpetuation of it.

It's been a while since I played through the start of this, but I want to remember that the first mention of her name (to the WoL) was something along the lines of "they [the heretics] call her Iceheart".... But like I said, it's a long time since then, so I might be wrong. Will get there soon(ish) with one of my alts so I can refresh my memory ^^

Here, I used to have a better video of this, but somehow the link is no longer in my YouTube history, it was of a Highlander Hyur. I had found the link on a Reddit post, but no longer finding that either. Actually, if anyone here finds it, let me know.

Well, yes. But like I mentioned in a previous post I have Japanese audio but English client, since I'm far from fluent enough in Japanese (especially written Japanese) to be able to understand anything ^^; Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough in the post you quoted.

No, you weren't unclear, I was just saying that in japanese, you *can* sometimes tell who's talking before seeing their faces, if it's a known character, going by the text alone (ie unvoiced cutscenes).

[Linadae]

I'm sure it's been covered but as to the names with no vowels, I know (from reading the lore forums) that the entire Sea wolf naming conventions have been taken from the Old Norse/Scandinavian languages. And if you look at Iceland, Norway, Sweden, and other areas where Viking cuture flourished, you will note several major settlements, mountains, rivers, and volcanoes bearing names with no/very few vowels. And that is because in their language some consonants are considered vowels.

Much like in Japan how L and R and...I think...B and V (citation needed) are interchangeable.

Trust me, Koji-Fox is not messing with your brain. It's all in the naming conventions thread in the Lore Forums including his reasoning.

Also, Localization is more than just translation. There are jokes and references that Americans won't get or will be offended by. Same with the French and German translantions. Not everyone has been blessed growing up immersed in a second culture hell, many of us barely understand the one we were born into, (myself included). So these are things that have to be changed into something that the other countries could enjoy equally.

Lost in Translation isn't just a movie after all.

[Noxifer]

No, you weren't unclear, I was just saying that in japanese, you *can* sometimes tell who's talking before seeing their faces, if it's a known character, going by the text alone (ie unvoiced cutscenes).

^^ which I agreed with, based on the how differently the NPCs express themselves in the Japanese audio.

And if you look at Iceland, Norway, Sweden, and other areas where Viking cuture flourished, you will note several major settlements, mountains, rivers, and volcanoes bearing names with no/very few vowels. And that is because in their language some consonants are considered vowels.

My memory of old Norse language is rusty, since it's about 15-20 years since I went through that time period in school, but I'd say it's not so much an issue of consonants being considered vowels as there being an assumed vowel interspaced. So 'haldr' for example would be pronounced 'haldir' (random example to show what I mean, not necessarily a 100% correct example). Though yes, Y is considered a vowel, so if you're used to that being a consonant you'd be correct in your statement =)
(Then again, Welsh considers W to be a vowel, so...... *shrugs*)

When is a double 'u' not a vowel?

xD point. Though in most Nordic countries, it's called "double-v", at least as far as I know ^_~ (And often counted as the same letter as V in dictionaries, phone books and the like ^^; Probably because there are very few words and/or names starting with W in the first place.)

[Kosmos992k]

^^ which I agreed with, based on the how differently the NPCs express themselves in the Japanese audio.



My memory of old Norse language is rusty, since it's about 15-20 years since I went through that time period in school, but I'd say it's not so much an issue of consonants being considered vowels as there being an assumed vowel interspaced. So 'haldr' for example would be pronounced 'haldir' (random example to show what I mean, not necessarily a 100% correct example). Though yes, Y is considered a vowel, so if you're used to that being a consonant you'd be correct in your statement =)
(Then again, Welsh considers W to be a vowel, so...... *shrugs*)

When is a double 'u' not a vowel?

[Chiramu]

OP has never studied Shakespeare. The English localisation is good.