Monk's Heavensward abilities

[Adire]

But all monks HW abilities were literally flat upgrades that helped the class with its flaws while maintaining its identity what is there to complain about?

My main complaint is that monk has arguably the lowest potential max dps of the melees next to ninja and the least group utility. The job with the least group utility should do the most personal damage to make up for it.

Dragoon and Ninja's new kits allowed them to truly grow in dps, enough to pass monk. Things should be brought back to order, or at least make a monk be more useful to a group utility wise. Right now, having a monk instead of a dragoon or ninja is a drawback to a group in every way.

[Subucnimorning]

Dragoon and Ninja's new kits allowed them to truly grow in dps, enough to pass monk. Things should be brought back to order, or at least make a monk be more useful to a group utility wise. Right now, having a monk instead of a dragoon or ninja is a drawback to a group in every way.

A majority of groups wouldn't agree with you that having a monk is a drawback compared to ninja. MNK is more dps than NIN's effective dps with TA taken into account.

[trailmix9999]

My main complaint is that monk has arguably the lowest potential max dps of the melees next to ninja and the least group utility. The job with the least group utility should do the most personal damage to make up for it.

Dragoon and Ninja's new kits allowed them to truly grow in dps, enough to pass monk. Things should be brought back to order, or at least make a monk be more useful to a group utility wise. Right now, having a monk instead of a dragoon or ninja is a drawback to a group in every way.

Lets get one thing straight, monk now has the highest single target dps and aoe of the 3 melees. It is debatable if played perfectly monk provides enough dps to make up the difference between nins st with trick attack. Next, nin got almost no new abilities that help their personal dps. Monk utility is their dps as well as DK and mantra which can increase raid dps. Monk is far from a "drawback".

[Dante_V]

My main complaint is that monk has arguably the lowest potential max dps of the melees next to ninja and the least group utility.

I have to disagree. First, "lowest potential max dps next to ninja" there are only 3 melee. This makes them second. This could also be phrased highest potential next to DRG. Second I\\'d say that monks can out parse DRGs at this point, but realistically max potential really is meaningless because player skill decides dps. We have a MCH on our server who can out dps probably 90% of the players in this game. As far as utility, dragon kick is the largest non healer raid damage mitigation utility in the game. Granted it\\'s shared with drk, but this doesn\\'t invalidate it. Personally speaking as someone who has maimed ninja I can tell you that ninja hardly got any real dps boost in HW when compared to the others. There dps potential dropped compared to the other 2 in 3.0.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Scholar would like to have a word with you...

[whiskeybravo]

A majority of groups wouldn't agree with you that having a monk is a drawback compared to ninja. MNK is more dps than NIN's effective dps with TA taken into account.

I would definitely disagree lol. When our static was forming a few months back our raid leader really wanted a nin, but it was hard to find one so they opened the slot up to MNK. Haven't looked back or regretted that decision at all. In fact, our monk can now go NIN in a1s/a2s (and did so last week) but lesser damage did not really make up for TA. He did go monk in a2 since I've been our driver and monk aoe is better anyways, but point being, we'd all rather him be on monk instead, even tho he's a perfectly capable nin

[RocheKat]

First, "lowest potential max dps next to ninja" there are only 3 melee. This makes them second. This could also be phrased highest potential next to DRG

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this...

[Butcherboy]

lol well i guess someone dont know how to play monk

[Alahra]

About the only thing I'd like to see changed is for Form Shift to be on a 1.2-second cooldown like Meditation, and that's more just for...rhythm, than anything. It feels awkward at times while trying to use them both during phase shifts and my fingers trip up the timing regularly on one or the other. It's a pretty minor thing, though. MNK ended up feeling far better at 60 than I anticipated it would.

[Adire]

A majority of groups wouldn't agree with you that having a monk is a drawback compared to ninja. MNK is more dps than NIN's effective dps with TA taken into account.

Source please. Last I checked, Ninjas were far more common in early clears of AS and probably even now. They are close to MNK in DPS, often outparsing them, and provide far better utility.

Lets get one thing straight, monk now has the highest single target dps and aoe of the 3 melees. It is debatable if played perfectly monk provides enough dps to make up the difference between nins st with trick attack. Next, nin got almost no new abilities that help their personal dps. Monk utility is their dps as well as DK and mantra which can increase raid dps. Monk is far from a "drawback".

You're joking right?

From http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7aff5b99d9fb32 :

Greased Lightning III Damage bonus increased from 27% to 30%.
Duration increased from 12 seconds to 14 seconds.
Duration in PVP increased from 24 seconds to 28 seconds.

You really think that tiny 3% damage increase at GL3 suddenly boosted monk from being at the bottom of the melees, well behind DRG particularly, to the top? Some quick math should tell you 3% is not a lot. Lol....and the rest of the additions since launch to monk have only been QoL.

As for utility, Mantra has a 2x longer cooldown and is overall less of a group dps increase than TA contributes. Also, NIN can cross class Mantra at 5% rather than Monk's 20% traited Mantra, but a 5% Mantra + TA > 20% Mantra with no TA, by far.

Most raids run with a DRK, which does the same exact thing as monk minus the blunt resistance down, which is only beneficial to monks in the first place. Ninja also has goad, which is very valuable for obvious reasons. If TP is an issue (such as with a death, even unavoidable ones such as Pentacle in A4S), a Ninja is extremely valuable for goad, to give TP without the Bard if the group is running one having to regen it and lower their DPS. Minus a couple of exceptions like in A1S where you can have a monk debuffing the WAR's Oppressor while the DRK debuffs theirs, counting a MNK's intelligence down debuff as utility is inaccurate. It ceases to be useful for anyone except for the monk themselves if there is a DRK debuffing the same target. Not the case for Ninja, who can use the more powerful AE over DE if there's a WAR keeping Storm's Eye up.

Most raids also run with a Warrior, which benefits Ninja far more than monk (which doesn't benefit at all from it, or from DRK's debuff) due to Storm's Eye. One more advantage that both a WAR and Ninja will benefit from that Ninja has over monk, which doesn't benefit from anyone else's blunt resistance down debuff, because no one else has one.

So this argument that Monk is competitive with Ninja for utility is just inaccurate at best.

I have to disagree. First, "lowest potential max dps next to ninja" there are only 3 melee. This makes them second. This could also be phrased highest potential next to DRG. Second I\\'d say that monks can out parse DRGs at this point, but realistically max potential really is meaningless because player skill decides dps. We have a MCH on our server who can out dps probably 90% of the players in this game. As far as utility, dragon kick is the largest non healer raid damage mitigation utility in the game. Granted it\\'s shared with drk, but this doesn\\'t invalidate it. Personally speaking as someone who has maimed ninja I can tell you that ninja hardly got any real dps boost in HW when compared to the others. There dps potential dropped compared to the other 2 in 3.0.

You misunderstand or incorrectly assume my meaning. Lowest DPS next to ninja, as in it makes them third and ninja second. Phrase it however tickles your fancy, it means the same thing. They are close, hence why I said "arguably", but last I checked on things, well played Ninjas were more commonly outdpsing Monks than vice versa. Regardless, the difference is so tiny between that, but so great between utility and group DPS increase, that there's no reason to take a Monk over a Ninja given the choice and they both have equal gear, skill, etc. Player skill determining dps, such as a good mch outdpsing a bad monk, is a pointless thing to talk about here. We know it already and player skill can't be standardized, why bring that up? We're talking about job potential, not player potential.

I also play ninja as frequently as monk and have to strongly disagree with you. I feel Ninja has gotten more raw damage from its new skills. Monk mostly got QoL things for GL management. The only raw, extra damage monk has gotten has been Elixir Field and Forbidden Chakra, which is typically not able to be used often in most fights. Ninja got Armor Crush, which hits quite hard itself and frees up Ninjitsus for attacks and overall helps sustain DPS far better than Forbidden Chakra does for monk, and Duality and DWaD, which while able to be used less often than Elixir Field, are quite powerful.

At HW's launch, Monk was parsing considerably lower than DRG, and oftentimes lower than NIN. The only thing that has changed besides QoL for monk since then has been the tiny 3% GL3 damage boost. Not sure why people seem to think that has suddenly tipped the balance to make Monk do higher DPS than DRG, or even Ninja.

That extra 2 seconds on GL3 is only useful if you would have lost GL3, which should only ever happen when targets leave the arena and tornado kick is optimal to use. And that didn't even happen often enough for the previous 60 second cooldown on TK to come off just in time for another to be needed, 60 seconds was already adequate, so the 40 second reduction to TK's CD was pretty pointless too. The 2 seconds extra is nice, but in optimal play, not a DPS increase. I actually believe it was added as a bandaid for Demolish being changed to not apply GL instantly like it used to do.