Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

[jmdude]

Inability to clear content until weeks later

Nobody can actually say this is a fact though? World first statics took DRK cause they felt it was better suited for mechanics not because they thought they'd loose to enrage. People are only clearing weeks later with it because world firsts have a greater skill level than those clearing weeks later (which is what lets world first statics get that far), if they can clear in lower Ilvl gear so can you if your group of 8 had the same skill, there are groups who STILL struggle to beat A1S enrage despite the fact they have months of gear by now.

TL;DR git gud

[OPneedNerfs]

Nobody can actually say this is a fact though? World first statics took DRK cause they felt it was better suited for mechanics not because they thought they'd loose to enrage. People are only clearing weeks later with it because world firsts have a greater skill level than those clearing weeks later (which is what lets world first statics get that far), if they can clear in lower Ilvl gear so can you if your group of 8 had the same skill, there are groups who STILL struggle to beat A1S enrage despite the fact they have months of gear by now.

You do realize they swapped out PLD for DRK? And also allowed more raid-wide dps after swapping out MNK for NIN because DRK provides the INT debuff that MNK gives?

If swapping out classes for an increased DPS is not indicative of thinking they'd lose to enrage, I'm not sure what you think it is for, especially when it is done during progression and not farming phase.

TL;DR git gud

Tell that to Elysium? Or are you saying you're better than one of the world first clear groups?

[Leonus]

Tell that to Elysium? Or are you saying you're better than one of the world first clear groups?

I, personally, think people hold world first groups in too high of a regard. What most world first groups have over other players isn't necessarily skill, but time. Don't get me wrong, those guys are great players, but they aren't gods by any means.

Anyways, pld was swapped out for two things, better for the current content and higher dps which allowed them to find the most optimal setup. A lot of people want war nerfed, which I don't think is the right path to take. I think pld should be buffed, but in a raid utility fashion to make up for their lack of dps. Much like how they should have done for mnk rather than buffing their pure dps.

Just my opinion though. So far, through leveling war, it's been pretty smooth and involving and I think it's a really well done class overall. I don't have pld or drk high enough to compare, but I think drk and pld should be made to be more complete as classes rather than taking a piece away from war.

[jmdude]

Y

Did you read my post at all?
1.I understand they swapped out PLD for DRK or I wouldn't talk about them bringing DRK over it
2. Answered your question in that post
3. No git gud isn't aimed at those groups why you think that? Maybe you need to re-read my post. It's aimed at the people here whining about PLD, if a world first group with like Elysium went to A4S with a PLD they probably would've been able to clear within a reasonable time frame of world first, not "weeks after" cause of gear, this is just the mentality everyone has cause after A3S world first people started screaming DRK new meta! Stop playing PLD and switch classes!
FOTM mentality + world firsts not using PLD PLD clearing weeks later because the players who didnt meet the same skill requirements are still catching up, even though in the end it wouldn't matter because if they are DRK/PLD by the point they reach the fight they will have the gear capable of clearing it

[Seku]

Nobody can actually say this is a fact though?

TL;DR git gud

If anyone has cleared it within the first few weeks. Please step up and with proof. Until then the burden of proof lays with you.

Until then it's on the plate that PLD hasn't cleared either AS3 or AS4 without hitting enrage, for now there is quite the time span between original release and current time and the fact that each group that did clear it with a PLD where geared so that DPS checks could be made.

There is proof that Pld sucks at the following: Everything except it's O-shi button (Hollow).

What you can summarize from this is that if groups were pressing forward without PLD to begin with and were handling busters to begin with. PLD in it's current state is always going to be sub-optimal in every situation with a slight lead in mitigation that no one cares about and has lost it's main playing card which kept it relevant in the 2.0 series, it's safety.

TL: DR Learnpld.

it wouldn't just be, we can't meet the dps check

Edit: If you actually think it's only about the DPS problems, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and need to go read a bit more on the problems made obviously clear by a lot of top raiders on various forums. Then git gud at the other tanks.

[jmdude]

Edit: If you actually think it's only about the DPS problems, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and need to go read a bit more on the problems made obviously clear by a lot of top raiders on various forums. Then git gud at the other tanks.

It's as if you didn't read my post at all.

[Seku]

It's as if you didn't read my post at all.

Actually it's like you didn't read mine.

Nobody can actually say this is a fact though?

I'll say it again. Proof that someone has beaten AS3 or AS4 without hitting enrages within the first few weeks and roughly around same gear progression with a PLD in the party. No "if" situations. Until then re-read the post you didn't read whats ARE facts about pld.

World first statics took DRK cause they felt it was better suited for mechanics not because they thought they'd loose to enrage

They took drk due to it's ability to increase raid damage due to the replacement of monk. So actually they did take it to hit enrage timers.

if they can clear in lower Ilvl gear so can you if your group of 8 had the same skill

Ok now refer me to what I was asking before. Video of AS3 or AS4 w/o hitting enrages within the first few weeks.

there are groups who STILL struggle to beat A1S enrage despite the fact they have months of gear by now

Has nothing to do with the class itself though. People fail at Titan EX. Rerfer to my last post for PLDs weaknesses.

It's undeniable that the FOTM mentality is part of the reason it took them so long to clear weeks after, it's much more than just the class design it has to do with the community too.

People like to make statements like that AS IF IT WERE A FACT WHEN IT'S NOT..

and it's actually quite amazing that you make a statement as if it were a fact and then try to say that you're posting things because people are saying things are facts.

Any how I'm done with you since you've brought nothing to the table.

tl;dr learn 2 read, stop tryin to troll

[jmdude]

I'm not trying to troll, you just keep reading things and taking them out of context, taking them to extremes and relating them to different things if you're going to deny the communities involvement in the fact it lagged behind in getting a clear I guess you rather be blissfully ignorant and complain that a class is weak over the design of 2 floors of a raid.

[Disc]

There is proof that Pld sucks at the following: Everything except it's O-shi button (Hollow).

I'd like to see that proof.

If you actually think it's only about the DPS problems, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and need to go read a bit more on the problems made obviously clear by a lot of top raiders on various forums. Then git gud at the other tanks.

All of their problems boil down to the fact that they are trailing pretty far behind the other tanks in DPS. Reading about things you don't seem to understand does not give you credibility.

[SwordCoheir]

All of their problems boil down to the fact that they are trailing pretty far behind the other tanks in DPS. Reading about things you don't seem to understand does not give you credibility.

I wouldn't even say the DPS capability is lacking, PLD just doesn't have the flow other tanks have. PLD's get hit with more barriers than other tanks either due to clunky abilities (Clemency, Cover, Divine Veil) or impeding mechanics that hamper our potential (Inability to Oath Swap efficiently, Flash not scaling with buffs), or the fact half of our support abilities seem half-assed attempts to make us more "defensive" over the other tanks (Tempered Will, Convalesence, Awareness).

Either way, I think the overall points have been made, so let's just sit back and see what SE decides to do with our beloved job, and watch other PLD's become extra salty.