DEV REQUEST: Remove cast bars to MCH & BRD

[seekified]

I think Gauss Barrel makes more sense for its job than Wanderer's Minuet does for bards, but it's also a definite fact that I enjoyed MCH more before Gauss Barrel became a thing at 52.

While it's true that the changes that these stances got in recent patches has made the jobs competitive again DPS-wise, I think it's just an odd way of playing ranged jobs. They give you all this mobility to set you apart from other jobs and then give you a shiny new ability that takes it all away - it's just odd, regardless of how it performs.

[Daralii]

I think Gauss Barrel makes more sense for its job than Wanderer's Minuet does for bards, but it's also a definite fact that I enjoyed MCH more before Gauss Barrel became a thing at 52.

While it's true that the changes that these stances got in recent patches has made the jobs competitive again DPS-wise, I think it's just an odd way of playing ranged jobs. They give you all this mobility to set you apart from other jobs and then give you a shiny new ability that takes it all away - it's just odd, regardless of how it performs.

If being able to jump in place while DPSing is what sets a job apart, it doesn't have a particularly solid identity. Bard's defined by Ballad and Requiem more than anything.

[seekified]

If being able to jump in place while DPSing is what sets a job apart, it doesn't have a particularly solid identity. Bard's defined by Ballad and Requiem more than anything.

Yeah, perhaps "set it apart" wasn't the best way to say it - I mean it more in the sense that as a ranged job, being able to attack on the go seems natural because otherwise the only thing setting you apart from casters are your animations, which I think is what the chief complaint has been for GB/WM (along with the fact that it suddenly changes how the jobs play). The support stuff is fantastic for both jobs and makes a lot of sense for their roles and I agree that it's their signature abilities.

Something that will be interesting to see DPS-wise is just how powerful BRD and MCH will become since a 1.3x modifier on all outgoing damage will become huge as our gear improves. Bards were in a very good place towards the end of 2.x and I imagine we'll look at these jobs quite differently in six months, much like DRG was very looked down upon early on but after the changes in 2.4 became a lot more capable.

[Warlyx]

MCH has less isues with GB because they have procs and way to force procs to be more mobile , we bards no options outside 2 random procs (bloodletter and Straight shot! proc that have both their own issues now)

anyway like i said , 2.0 > 3.0 we are in the same spot dpswise but now we arent that mobile , and thats counting a 30% boost from the stance

how its possible that we gained 30% dmg and we are still doing the same dps compared to others?

others gained 30% too u will think , it only makes sense ,but what other jobs gave to get that 30% boost?

it feels like all the work was put into SMN then others and at the end BRD (copy paste from MCH) , just look at the animations new mechanics and QOL changes....we got the short end of the stick in HW

p.d i still "enjoy" it , and casting was a pain at the begging , but once u get over it meh....but still doesnt feel "fair". (if u played shaman in wow u know what i mean)

[rappa]

180 wep bard = 63 Weapon Damage
180 wep nin-mnk-drg = 70 Weapon Damage.
+7 WD

190 wep bard = 65 Weapon Damage
190 wep nin-mnk-drg = 72 Weapon Damage.
+7 WD

200 wep bard = 67 Weapon Damage
200 wep nin-mnk-drg = 74 Weapon Damage.
+7 WD

210 wep bard = 68 Weapon Damage
210 wep nin-mnk-drg = 76 Weapon Damage.
+8 WD

That is the problem, nor potency, nor skills. Our weapon damage is less than others
dps and the difference is increased final wep stage.

Too afraid to stay the +7 WD difference?

[Kaze3434]

180 wep bard = 63 Weapon Damage
180 wep nin-mnk-drg = 70 Weapon Damage.
+7 WD

190 wep bard = 65 Weapon Damage
190 wep nin-mnk-drg = 72 Weapon Damage.
+7 WD

200 wep bard = 67 Weapon Damage
200 wep nin-mnk-drg = 74 Weapon Damage.
+7 WD

210 wep bard = 68 Weapon Damage
210 wep nin-mnk-drg = 76 Weapon Damage.
+8 WD

That is the problem, nor potency, nor skills. Our weapon damage is less than others
dps and the difference is increased final wep stage.

Too afraid to stay the +7 WD difference?

something interesting to note; bards/mch have 11 more main stat(dex) then the other jobs. for a while, i thought ninja was missing dex, but its just that the base is higher.

[AdamFyi]

how its possible that we gained 30% dmg and we are still doing the same dps compared to others?

Simply because if we didn't get the 30% damage boost, we would have even less overall dps than the other jobs. Plus, you're only looking at numbers where it is in favourable conditions (i.e a striking dummy). Straight Shot procs definitely needs to have the animation delay looked into so it can function just like Shot procs, and Warden's Paean probably warrants some slight changes as well. I'm happy with the current Bard though.

[Warlyx]

Simply because if we didn't get the 30% damage boost, we would have even less overall dps than the other jobs.

of course if WM / GB didnt have 30% dmg boost, healers would outdps bard/mch, and no 1 would use it , but thats not the point.

The point is that brd are the same in dps rankings that 2.0 , but we lost our movility and gained nothing....because SE boosted everyone by 30% coming from 2.0 to 3.0 HOWEVER bards are the only one that payed that cost with WM (casting). (well Blm with ley lines and Nin with positionals )

[AdamFyi]

The point is that brd are the same in dps rankings that 2.0 , but we lost our movility and gained nothing because SE boosted everyone by 30% coming from 2.0 to 3.0.

Why are you using the dps rankings? Those are usually done in favourable conditions. Actual encounters differ from each other; some jobs are better in certain encounters than others. Also, what mobility? You really don't have to move as much as you're suggesting. Plus, it's not like Minuet puts an eternal non-cleansable bind on you.