The Real Problem with Parsers

[Aiselia]

I suppose if a parse could be designed such that it would show me a timeline, as you called it, that might be worthwhile but even if that was possible I would still much rather have access to it in real time.

Seeing a graph or a timeline of my numbers and cooldown usage after a wipe or a clear doesn't really carry the same weight as in real time. In real time I can start to notice a trend and immediately fix it. After a wipe I can only see that there was an issue and can only hope to rectify in the future.

Okay, but what if you can see your data during but not others'? You still can see your own data to know whether you need to pick up the pace during the fight, you just wouldn't be able to point it out to someone else, and I'd assume that if that someone else was capable of picking up the pace to adjust in mid-fight, they should be able to do it while being able to see their own data as well without being told.

The longer this conversation goes on, the more it seems to be leaning towards the side of adding in an official parsing tool for the game. Either the people devoutly against parsing aren't as strong in their convictions enough to continue to have a discussion on the matter or they're changing their stance.

Well, I've always been for adding at least a personal parser into the game for the objective benefits it brings, with a minimal amount of stepping on peoples' toes. Even the biggest fear monger can't argue that a personal parser that others CAN'T see will breed elitism because there wouldn't be a difference between that and what there is now except that each person can see their own. Unless they become elitist to themselves. Which I'd kinda like to see.

"YOUR DPS IS TRASH, ME. LEARN TO PLAY. I AM SUCH A LOSER. Why am I so mean? I don't need to harass me like that. I'm going to report me."

Almost all of the people "devoutly against parsing" don't really stick around more than a few posts to say how every DF group will turn into a drooling ragefest.

Right now I'm just trying to find out what would be the happy medium where the most people are at least satisfied, even if their situation isn't what they feel to be perfect. From the anti-parser side, it seems to revolve around "Other people don't need to know my DPS", so personal. From the pro-parser side, it seems to be important that it shows enough detail to be able to figure out what went wrong instead of just having a "You did this much DPS during the whole thing!" flat number and that seeing others' DPS in certain situations is important. Which is why I suggest a parser that's default personal but can be shared. It's not forcing the anti-parsers to always be visible, while giving pro-parsers the information they need on themselves and an option for them to get the information they may need about other people in the situations where it is important.

Hey, had you on ignore since the first post you posted! Lucky you I actually checked this one!

That's an odd claim since you've responded to me a few times, but okay.

'Elitist' on this forum is generally used as a synonym for 'someone who is capable'. And the 'I play for fun' excuse always comes up when people are being called out for bad play, as if being good at the game is not fun.

Okay, but the person you responded to didn't say anything about that. They didn't bring up whether people are capable or not. They didn't even imply that being capable was synonymous with being elitist. They only said not to be elitist.

So what you're saying is that because other people that weren't the person you responded to (allegedly) used elitism and capability as synonyms, you just assumed that because this person who is a completely different person than they were used the word elitist, they must have been referring to people who are capable, and not actual elitists? And that when they say "I play for fun", they're not just saying "I don't concern myself with how much DPS the others in my group are doing because I'm too busy having fun" (which they basically did say), they're really saying "I'm bad but it's because I'm having fun"?

So the answer is that you actually do believe that just because they use the word elitist they're automatically lumping elitists with all good players, period, even if they say nothing of the sort? Huh. Okay, thanks.

This was discussed on page 48.

On page 48 you gave the subjective benefit of not having people hide their information. It appeared to be your stance that if everyone chose to hide their data after a failed DPS check, it would have been inherently better to have been able to force you to see it. I then responded to that with

If nobody's willing to share at all, vote abandon. If they're not willing to help solve the problem, then being able to default see their numbers won't solve it either.

Actually, you know what, upon looking back there, I made this post:

Shortcut

The only thing in that post you responded to at the time was accusing me of lumping people together again because you didn't notice that I said "some people", not "everybody", which wasn't even a point directed at you. Which, by the way, you also conveniently didn't respond to when I pointed out that I didn't say everyone, which is poor form from someone who accuses me of avoiding people who prove me wrong.

Your next post after that was asking me how I'd prove someone's using only one attack without a parser, which is an incredibly strange question.

We then skip forward to page 51 where you claim you made an argument 6 pages previous that I didn't present a valid argument against. But it's obvious that you're the one that skipped out on that argument because I was the last one to say anything on that train of thought on page 48 before you moved on to accusing me of saying things I didn't and implying you need a parser to see someone spamming the same animation.