The Real Problem with Parsers

[Waliel]

parsers DONT really matter that much. often times, you can look at people's hate gauges and get somewhat of an idea of what people are doing damage-wise

The problem with that is it's all relative to the highest threat, so you don't know how many, if any, are above the treshold needed when you hit the enrage. Then there's also Summoners and their pets, Dragoons halving their threat possibly, how adds and some mechanics are handled, etc. It really only kinda maybe works in long dummy fights.

[Butcherboy]

^
That's why we're not getting a global parser because of that statement. The best that were gonna get is a personal parser, and that's a may be. And it's not just dps. In my opinion I hate auto pilots. Specially war tank either just spam Overpower or healers just heal, yes yes I know healers, but if ur giving dps capabilities then use it and actually dps. It won't hurt to trow in a few stone or aero here and there. I want a parser and I'm for it. SE just need to be smart on how they apply it to the game.

[Whiteroom]

^
That's why we're not getting a global parser because of that statement. The best that were gonna get is a personal parser, and that's a may be. And it's not just dps. In my opinion I hate auto pilots. Specially war tank either just spam Overpower or healers just heal, yes yes I know healers, but if ur giving dps capabilities then use it and actually dps. It won't hurt to trow in a few stone or aero here and there. I want a parser and I'm for it. SE just need to be smart on how they apply it to the game.

We shouldn't have parsers because people tell severly undergeared people on their team to get better gear?

[T0rin]

The real problem with parsers is that too many people don't have them and too many people are just running around screaming that 'the sky is falling' on the off chance that someone may one day _officially_ see and be able to discuss their DPS. The simple matter here is that whether or not there is an official parser, there is still an un-official parser. Denying people who do not have the ability to run a parser access to that information has no purpose other than to protect the fragile egos of a minority of really bad players who can't take criticism in any form. We're talking about the willful denial of knowledge and information to the majority that can be nothing more than better served by it.

I've been parsing since it was available in FF14, and I've personally never once used it to be a jerk. Sure, maybe I'm in the minority, but I doubt it. In all my many DF runs absolutely atrocious DPS, very few have ever been called out publicly. Sure, when running with 1 or 2 FC members, we may joke in FC/LS chat about how bad that 300 DPS Bard is, but we never throw it in his face. If someone is really seriously bad and is causing significant issues (like wiping), we have every right to vote kick that person for difference in playstyle. This isn't going to change whether or not we have an official parser. Sure, it may happen in more groups, but I'd say those people deserve the feedback. They may even have no clue about how bad they are, and an official parser would put that right in their face and allow them the knowledge and opportunity to improve. Knowledge they likely don't have currently, else wise they probably wouldn't be doing so awful.

We have easy tools to judge whether tanks or healers are doing good.. do they keep aggro, do people stay alive? These are easy metrics to judge without any real analysis at all. But the onus should not be on me, as a DPS, to carefully watch a fellow DPS and hope to know their class well enough to judge whether their DPS is good or not based on their rotation. I've got my own rotation to worry about, I'm not about to drop 50% of my DPS just to sit and stare at some Bard and try to figure out why he is doing so bad. Nobody should have that responsibility. People need to be responsible for themselves and for their own DPS, and without a parser, they can't do that. Without knowing what your group is doing, people can't hold each other accountable. And that is something the lower performing part of the community desperately needs, is accountability.

If you go into a DF, you risk wasting 3-7 other people's time because you are clueless about your ability to play your class. What argument can really be made to support someone remaining clueless, remaining bad, having no tools to know how they are doing or what to do to improve with? The only one is that people are too fragile for any form of criticism, and to me, that is a really tragic, awful argument. Too long has the community held onto this idea that "I pay my monthly fee, I should be able to play however I want, even if that means wasting 7 other people's time"... the argument is just downright bad. Those 7 other people should have the knowledge that their time is being wasted without having to analytically judge someone else by in-game animations, and be able to provide verbal and if necessary, vote kick level feedback. Right now, a lot of people simply remain ignorant, which is not good.

People like to run around claiming the worst would happen if parsers were introduced in an official capacity, with nothing to back that up. In every other MMO that has official parsing, this doesn't happen. The community doesn't turn into some hyper-judgy orgy of kicking people and shaming every loss of 50 DPS. It just doesn't happen. All people in this thread are doing is playing on that fear, regardless of how unfounded it actually is.

But the two sides to this are very simple indeed. One side advocates for more knowledge and insight for everyone, to help everyone equally grow and improve as players. The other side wishes to leave a large portion of the playerbase in the dark, because reasons. You're either on the side of knowledge or the side of ignorance, and I don't know how anyone can in good faith, advocate for the latter.

[Butcherboy]

^ that's not what I'm trying to say. Well kinda. It's how the new or just doesn't care type said player take that as a comment. There's plenty of instance when I was making cooment about there play style and I'll get the most common response of o play how ever I want to play. Those to me were I just say ok. A lot of casual players don't really care about proper skill usage or what's better gear. Those are the players that yoshi p also wants to protect and not get criticize due getting pick on. So I think the best that we're gonna get if any actually happens is a personal parser and may be away to share it.

[Archaell]

How can you stop others from telling you what is better gear?

I don't know, maybe introduce a new harassment report for that? :P

Actually I started a thread that all the content should have reasonable iLevel requirements. That would be the first step. Then we have to deal with players using wrong items altogether.

I think we can agree that education of "not caring casuals" is far better solution for the community than letting them sit in their ignorance. It's stupid how many players think that reaction is the problem, while they completely ignore the cause that leads to said reaction.

[rappa]

I was kicked from a dungeon because i said to a bard "mind accesories" are not useful to his job. He responded me "i use mind accesories for mp" and i replied piety gives mana, mind gives heal. And bam i was outside the dungeon.

[Rawrz]

I was kicked from a dungeon because i said to a bard "mind accesories" are not useful to his job. He responded me "i use mind accesories for mp" and i replied piety gives mana, mind gives heal. And bam i was outside the dungeon.

You were obviously running a parser. >:C

Saying it again for point proven.

Why is it that SE added an examine feature, which lets anyone who stands near you, or anyone just viewing your lodestone profile, look at your gear? They can track your progression, your effort and your worth.

Imagine if players didn't have the option. You suddenly can't see why your groups aren't reaching DPS checks, no one can single out anyone, because of glamour. Just little comments between each pull like "push the dps harder guys, we can do it this time." Isn't that nice?... but you're still failing content because someone, who although is a good player, is not so good as to keep up with the 20 iLevel difference between themselves and every other party member, but thinking about it, isn't being able to see someone's gear an atrocious and overstepping violation of freedom?

Alternatively, being able to examine someone lets you look at gear to set goals for, to see what other players of your class consider BiS or just the neat Glamour they are using; to be admired and to be shown new things, isn't this that same violation of privacy and privilege?

People don't kick people in average content for poor dps, because of parsers, they do because they are asses. The examine feature is enough for the toxic players to decide your worth.

Please note* You are not the toxic player. xD In this case its that people should be open to advice and constructive criticism that active gameplay, Examine Feature, and parsers can provide. D:

[Archaell]

I was kicked from a dungeon because i said to a bard "mind accesories" are not useful to his job. He responded me "i use mind accesories for mp" and i replied piety gives mana, mind gives heal. And bam i was outside the dungeon.

How could you? The ignorance has to be build over time and now that poor bard has to start over...

It's being said that FFXIV has one of the nicer communities... yet any attempt to help other players learn something new or improve is quite often viewed as an insult or harassment.

This over-sensitivity is getting so crazy that some players consider even "not greeting your DF party members" toxic behaviour ._.

[SpookyGhost]

I was kicked from a dungeon because i said to a bard "mind accesories" are not useful to his job. He responded me "i use mind accesories for mp" and i replied piety gives mana, mind gives heal. And bam i was outside the dungeon.

It was wrong of him to kick you (obviously), but it is kinda sad that these type of players just want to the game to be more than it is.