The Real Problem with Parsers

[Malevicton]

Also it is easy to see when dps aren't doing "enough". You fail included dps checks or the timelimit. Else they did enough. Objectively. I prefer the devs and game to set the bar. Not you. I hope they dont listen to you.

So for dungeons good enough is being afk? Because that's enough to avoid wiping.

Sorry, but honestly, no. People have different standards, I get that; it makes it hard to pin down a bare minimum. But I think it's safe to say that the bare minimum is something more than "not worse than literally an empty party spot"

People should at least try. They don't have to succeed, but intentionally making other people your personal tome gatherers is rude, even if it's not killing you.

[TiaHeart]

So for dungeons good enough is being afk? Because that's enough to avoid wiping.

If you feel the need to display your awesome WAR skills by tearing the dungeon apart on your own before the timer runs out yes. There is a timelimit. Also pls notice how i said there are kickreasons. I think afk was one of them. Also please notice how I said that "obviously still doable" was a part of the equation. Its not obviously doable when 2/4 afk, and I as one of the remains dont even know the other dudes skill. Please dont twist my words, you know i didnt want to advocate AFKing. I really didnt, and I dont want to promote things bad to the game. I just wanted to offend an elitist for talkin no reason at all imho
Didnt say parsers are objectively definitely wrong or adress anybody else. I adressed one person, and gave votes on the topic. When i vote, im not claiming thats "the only/best" way. Thats just... My vote

[TiaHeart]

But I think it's safe to say that the bare minimum is something more than "not worse than literally an empty party spot"

Guess what ? I agree 100%. Kickvote with "AFK". The game allows you to, and you have certified moral highground by the others voting yes. Problem is where?
I also never said I have a problem with balancind dngs a bit more harsh on minilvl/synclevel/timelimit. I personally find the frames ridiculous too and think 60 mins would be better. Sadly, it wasnt the topic.

People should at least try. They don't have to succeed, but intentionally making other people your personal tome gatherers is rude, even if it's not killing you.

They should. Im ok with kickreason "not trying". Im not ok with some dude judgin 600 dps on brd i180 is to bad, bcuz some dude upped a brd parse at 800, when mere auto attack sits at 300. The 600 dude is playing and "trying". He doesnt need your approval if he is better than the game asks him to be.

I just couldnt fit it all in the one post u quoted for 1000 char. Sry ^^

[Archaell]

...

No offense taken... even if you wanted to offend me. Could you tell me why do you consider me an elitist? I would really like to know what makes you think that.

Also your posts seem like you are trying to encourage players to not even try. Do you know what happens when nobody in the group tries? It doesn't go well, it leads to content being nerfed. Do you like nerfs?

I am not sure how parser makes it bad for everyone, when in reality parser makes nothing bad. It just shows what the player is or isn't doing. So how do you want to hide that tank or healer aren't doing their job to make it fair then?

[TiaHeart]

Could you...

I wasnt kiddin when i wrote every random line. Maybe exagerating a bit, but its close to everything you say.
Pick this one: Tanks and heals have to take abuse if they dont deliver, dd need the same for "fairness".

Also your posts...

Where? I just see it like there is 95% content "for everyone" even those who perform at 70%, and 5% to satisfy those seekin challenges thrivin 90-100%. I do not want habits that are fine for the top 5 to be transfered onto the bottom 95. Thats a minority vote and discrimination by elitists. The MAJORITY of overall players IS BAD. There, i said it.

[Omni-Vocational_Ryan]

Duty finder = deal with what you get, sorry sometimes you get that one dps doing less then the tank, but DF is luck of the draw
Party finder/pre made = parse and kick all you want(provided you are the Party leader) or if you aren't and someone is underperforming and won't take your advice(like say a ninja refusing to use a poison in a RavEx farm) leave. If people blame you for that oh well standards are different.

[TiaHeart]

To sum it all up, im takein a democrating stance here. Im afraid global parsers in every content, even the snorefests COULD lead to people like you discriminating casuals and ruining their game. Im not saying thats how it has to be, just saying I dont like the chance of it. Hence personal parser yes, global parser no. Ppl that do the 5% content parse anyhow the way it is. And what the minority does among itself is minoritys issue and all fine. Personal parsers might help the 95 and bring no risk. I have no problem with people wanting to get good, i have no problem with people being good, the only problem i have is people telling others to get good in clearly the wrong place. And ive seen it happen. Ppl in farms failin mechanics over n over lying on the floor all day blaming the only one who had it nailed for his imperfect rotation. Im not afraid of bad players, im afraid of ignorant and dumb ones, who still feel the need to use their ellbows.

[Archaell]

Ok, you dislike elitists - I dislike elitists too. Elitists can be reported for harassment, so it is something each individual can fix.

There is no indicator when somebody isn't paying attention and you can't report them. As much as you believe that elitists are bad, I do believe that players who exploit others for free tomes are bad. There just isn't a way to deal with this issue which exists in the game.

Saying that if you are bad you should play dps jobs is making me furious. No. If you are bad you should try to improve. Every player in the group should share the same amount of responsibility. That's equal treatment. It shouldn't be play dps if you want to be irresponsible. The goal of every member of the group is to finish the run. Unfortunately players aren't considering others in their "single-player" game to do their best so something like parser is needed to make their contribution visible.

Not all players are nice. Elitist can be as toxic as slacker. The most annoying is when poor dps player blames the bard or whoever that the group is failing dps checks. With the public tools they wouldn't be able to do that.

[TiaHeart]

Ok, you dislike...

If only it were so simple. You know 90 percent of those casuals wont care to make the effort to file a report? They just think the game is shit, not because the game, but because the players are. They know one way to #dealwithit is move on and maybe do better things with their time. You expect everyone to involve to care as much as you do. THAT is not "too realistic"

...report them.

Well you can try to kick them for harassment if you feel sb is just expecting you to farm for them. Sounds like harassment. If you need a parser to proof your suspection, it cant be that bad. If you suspect all 3 of em do it and vote no- oh well, very likely

I do believe...

So do I. But in 110 days of playtime i never felt there are many people i would have to label tomefarmers by idling. Except pvp maybe, but then again MAYBE they truly think uncontested nodes need to be deffed.

[TiaHeart]

Saying that if you are bad you should play dps jobs is making me furious

My point isnt if you are bad play dps, it is if you are bad dont tank/heal. If you KNOW you will be destroying others fun, dont do it.

No. If you are bad you should try to improve

Absolutely. Personal parsers for everyone even on playstation pls. However, no dps gets better by pointing his finger at the baddies. Youre just asking to "force" ppl to get better by bashing em. I do not condone that violence