Crafting is fun!

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

This is true of all games: none of them are fun for everyone. Which makes statements about them being "poorly designed" (except from the standpoint of the quality and efficiency of the software as software) purely subjective, and not much more meaningful than saying "it is not what I want."

Well, "you can't please all of the people all of the time." -- John Lydgate

But you can objectively tell when things are going good or wrong.

And 3.0 crafting is absolutely clearly going wrong, the vast mayority of crafters, whole crafting linkshells across all servers in all datacenters have said so. People like the OP are not even a number to consider compared to the ammount of people who isn`t enjoying crafting in its current state.

3.0 red scrips, forced gathering and useless end game are all, objectibly, bad.

[Silverbane]

But you can objectively tell when things are going good or wrong.
And 3.0 crafting is absolutely clearly going wrong.

This is provably incorrect. I'm enjoying 3.0 gathering and crafting. Whether I am speed-gathering for Favor mats or rolling the dice in a 2-star craft, I am having fun. And thank goodness there's a scrip cap, or my IRL job might be at risk.

Therefore 3.0 crafting is subjectively going good, from my point of view. And like spicy food, if something is subjectively good to some and subjectively bad to others, then it is impossible for it to be objectively good or bad.

Sure, 3.0 crafting is different from 2.0 crafting, like habanero chili peppers are different from green peppers, so people who liked one might not like the other. But it's just a matter of taste, not of objective good or bad.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

This is provably incorrect. I'm enjoying 3.0 gathering and crafting. Whether I am speed-gathering for Favor mats or rolling the dice in a 2-star craft, I am having fun. And thank goodness there's a scrip cap, or my IRL job might be at risk.

Therefore 3.0 crafting is subjectively going good, from my point of view. And like spicy food, if something is subjectively good to some and subjectively bad to others, then it is impossible for it to be objectively good or bad.

Sure, 3.0 crafting is different from 2.0 crafting, like habanero chili peppers are different from green peppers, so people who liked one might not like the other. But it's just a matter of taste, not of objective good or bad.

Again wrong.

Objectively speaking, when you have, way over too many members of the community NOT enjoying your content, is cause you messed up and your content is OBJECTIVELY BAD even if someone likes it, as for example, there is people that likes to be abused, its fun for them, but the act of abusing is still objectively bad.

One "i like thread" and a few persons like yourself doesn`t even weight against the several tens of threads on all laguages across all data servers and all the craftsmen and woman dissapointed and even whole guilds (be it FC or LSs) of crafters going down thanks to the changes of 3.0 ... It`s a bad system, 3.0 was a bad change, if you enjoy it, good for you, but is still, objectively speaking, for the way grater (by landslide) mayority of crafters who doesn`t like it is a terrible system that needs changes, a full 180º turn if you ask me, this whole concept of killing omni-crafting by forcing interdependence is a mess.

If you have people, diehard mastercrafters droping their main activity because of a patch, said patch is bad.

Exactly like bad raid content makes raiders to leave and drop the games.

[Silverbane]

Again wrong.

Objectively speaking, when you have, way over too many members of the community NOT enjoying your content, is cause you messed up and your content is OBJECTIVELY BAD even if someone likes it, as for example, there is people that likes to be abused, its fun for them, but the act of abusing is still objectively bad.

One "i like thread" and a few persons like yourself doesn`t even weight against the several tens of threads ...

Oh nonsense. People like to complain, and Internet forums are never a valid indication of how a majority feel because they are often populated by fanatics/trolls. The only ones with any valid data about the popularity of 3.0 crafting and gathering is SE, not you, not me.

Quit pretending that most people agree with you, that's not something you can possibly know.

[DarthBuzzer]

Oh nonsense. People like to complain, and Internet forums are never a valid indication of how a majority feel because they are often populated by fanatics/trolls. The only ones with any valid data about the popularity of 3.0 crafting and gathering is SE, not you, not me.

Quit pretending that most people agree with you, that's not something you can possibly know.

Ask every crafter on every server and I guarantee you most will say they hate it. Many many server-leading crafters have quit because the system is objectively bad. Anyone who defends it is the 1% that ruins games by making awful requests that result in bad game design. If you can't figure out why this system is bad, I truly feel for your well-being.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Quit pretending that most people agree with you, that's not something you can possibly know.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ith-red-scrips...

Oh but they do, and i know they do.

Awe, did that bad Yoshida-san take away your widdle gil-printing machine? So sad, too bad.

Actually, the patch itself has increased my personal bank arround x5 times.

Again, your shortsightness leaves you in the dust. The problem is not even remotely close to the "making money". Is the crafting experience as a whole, and the absolute lack of progression and a relationship between effort and reward. Concepts that seem to escape your field of view since, obviusly you can`t see beyond the most basics.

Again, when you have the players who enjoyed and play your content the most dropping such content, is cause you messed up big. Thats basically, game design 101.

[Aniforani]

At the moment my biggest issue with this system isn't making gil, its finding something worth spending it on. Don't get me wrong, its taken me a long time to get to this point so I don't want to just throw 20 million on an item unless it gets me something truly impressive. I am currently limited to making items for other crafters, in turn creating my own competition. Our disconnect from making gear for combat classes is silly. The items we craft are not even worth glamouring, since raid gear has the coolest aesthetics. Please give me the chance to make someone else rich. There must be some raiders out there who wouldn't mind having a crafter buy mats from their dungeon runs to turn into near raid level gear.

[Silverbane]

If you have people, diehard mastercrafters droping their main activity because of a patch, said patch is bad.

Awe, did that bad Yoshida-san take away your widdle gil-printing machine? So sad, too bad.

[Iagainsti]

Again wrong.

Objectively speaking, when you have, way over too many members of the community NOT enjoying your content, is cause you messed up and your content is OBJECTIVELY BAD even if someone likes it, as for example, there is people that likes to be abused, its fun for them, but the act of abusing is still objectively bad.

I don't believe you comprehend the definition of objective. Where is your mounds of data and empirical evidence stating your claim, because banking your claim on "comments on the internet" or "the opinions of a few diehard crafters" is actually subjective.

Back on point, I have not gotten a crafter to 60, even when I had my 50s, I used them for desynth and not much else, but the actual system and minigame that is crafting is by far superior to any other crafting I've seen in other games.

[Gilthas]

Back on point, I have not gotten a crafter to 60, even when I had my 50s, I used them for desynth and not much else, but the actual system and minigame that is crafting is by far superior to any other crafting I've seen in other games.

Yeah, the actual crafting system in the game is great. The problem is the excessive grind in obtaining mats and crafting gear that was added for the sole purpose of pleasing the small minority of players that want the rest of the playerbase driven away from crafting so they're forced to buy their stuff.