Lock and Load: The Reassembled Machinist Guide

[Greywolfamakir]

I don't agree with BiS list. I think that Gordian Hood of Aiming is better than Machinist's Googles.



with Gordian Hood of Aiming you gain 17 Crit and you lose 58 Skill Speed.

w/ GB
WD - 10.71
Dexterity - 1.000
Determination - 0.125
Critical Hit Rate - 0.140
Skill Speed - 0.020

17 crit value = 2.38
58 Skill Speed value = 1.16

Out of values, Imo Crit is better than Skill Speed by far, and overcap accuracy is not a problem.

[Myon88]

17 crit value = 2.38
58 Skill Speed value = 1.16

I'm actually rather curious to know if those stat weights are still accurate - and how they were derived in the first place. I wasn't around back when the original thread was new.

FFS...... Thanks but no thanks.

No one is going to stand around and let you complete a Wildfire on them like they do in PvE, but you're welcome to find that out for yourself.

[Iagainsti]

No one is going to stand around and let you complete a Wildfire on them like they do in PvE, but you're welcome to find that out for yourself.

You wouldn't think ppl would let me get 3 fell cleaves off on them either, but I do it regularly.

[Griffeth]

for the opener, an alternative to accommodate a late TA/disembowel would go like...snip

I will add this in for people playing with a new group trying to figure out their DRG debuff timings. Our DRG is usually really good about getting that rolling early so it never really came to my mind.

Opinions on PvP? I have been leveling my MCH on the basis (looking at actions/pvp actions) that MCH Burst would be OP

Currently Rank 25 with Maelstrom (Its hard to PvP tons with a 2 year old running around) and I find MCH to be just fine. If I find a target that needs to die with all of the tools we have, we can drop someone rather fast. Group support and node defense is rather solid too with the AoE we have and ability to peel for healers. Will be interesting to see the next Wolves Den to see where we fit.

I don't agree with BiS list. I think that Gordian Hood of Aiming is better than Machinist's Googles.

I believe we had this discussion before, but I personally find the stat gain from the SkillSpeed to be better than the wasted 41 accuracy. There is no other combination of gear that still gives the crit and det numbers we have that allows you to properly use that 41 accuracy.

Here is the difference in stats when swapping helmets as you propose. The top one is the guide's BiS list, the bottom is yours.

DEX - Acc - Crit - Det - SkS - Vit (just incase you did not know the order for the stats from Ariyala's page.)





With an accuracy cap for a4s of around 650 to 655, i personally do not see the swap in helms to be worth the 17 crit raiting

I'm actually rather curious to know if those stat weights are still accurate - and how they were derived in the first place. I wasn't around back when the original thread was new.

Overall the stat weights are in the correct order, but SkS is not as low as this states. I am still trying to work with Xero and Dervy to get corrected weights for us and will probably post something here for people to try out to assist in getting corrected numbers.

[Greywolfamakir]

I believe we had this discussion before, but I personally find the stat gain from the SkillSpeed to be better than the wasted 41 accuracy. There is no other combination of gear that still gives the crit and det numbers we have that allows you to properly use that 41 accuracy.

Here is the difference in stats when swapping helmets as you propose. The top one is the guide's BiS list, the bottom is yours.

DEX - Acc - Crit - Det - SkS - Vit (just incase you did not know the order for the stats from Ariyala's page.)





With an accuracy cap for a4s of around 650 to 655, i personally do not see the swap in helms to be worth the 17 crit raiting

Accuracy cap for A4S is around 650, right, but I don't care about overcap accuracy if I'm maxing my main second stat, Crit.
Crit is the best second stat by far, it brings crit chance and crit damage, Skill Speed is pretty weak since our casts are 1.5...You are gonna need a lot of Skill Speed to get a real diference, but every 44 point of Critical Hit Damage bring 1% Chance and 1% Damage, I mean, crit has 2 effects, then 17 points of critical hit rate is equal to +0.4% chance and +0.4% crit damage and this is better than 58 Skill Speed by far and for sure.

I don't care if my accuracy is overcaped if I am maxing Crit.

[Griffeth]

I don't care if my accuracy is overcaped if I am maxing Crit.

and no one has stated that you must follow this BiS. If you value the 17 crit and wasted 41 accuracy over the skill speed, then that's all personal preference. Until we have people decked out in both sets running parsers and giving data fueled feedback, its all going to be going off raw stat values and what gives us the most bang for our buck. I am going to pour over the old thread to find where Xero gave us a rough update to the SkS weight and make sure to get it updated asap (probably after my raid tonight)

[Ephier]

Accuracy cap for A4S is around 650, right, but I don't care about overcap accuracy if I'm maxing my main second stat, Crit.
Crit is the best second stat by far, it brings crit chance and crit damage, Skill Speed is pretty weak since our casts are 1.5...You are gonna need a lot of Skill Speed to get a real diference, but every 44 point of Critical Hit Damage bring 1% Chance and 1% Damage, I mean, crit has 2 effects, then 17 points of critical hit rate is equal to +0.4% chance and +0.4% crit damage and this is better than 58 Skill Speed by far and for sure.

I don't care if my accuracy is overcaped if I am maxing Crit.

Pretty much this. It boils down to theoretical BIS vs practical BIS. On paper the SS build may have a higher stat weight, but in practice its probably not as strong as one that favors crit/det. Even if you have that much more SS, how many more GCD's will you get than the person who doesn't, probably not more than 1 or 2, and that is in a straight fight with no down time. But one thing i will say is, DET affects skill damage and turret damage so that is definitely a stat worth looking at with crit.

[Iagainsti]

Currently Rank 25 with Maelstrom (Its hard to PvP tons with a 2 year old running around) and I find MCH to be just fine. If I find a target that needs to die with all of the tools we have, we can drop someone rather fast. Group support and node defense is rather solid too with the AoE we have and ability to peel for healers. Will be interesting to see the next Wolves Den to see where we fit.

Thank you and me either, put my Warrior's progression through Savage on hold to level MCH for the ranked WD coming; should be a blast. Rank 48 Maelstrong here, and merited, the MCH PvP ability tool kit rocks. the learning curve is steep but the skill ceiling seems unlimited when you can mix an match the way the PvE abilities synergize. Great class all around.

[Aiurily]

I don't agree with BiS list. I think that Gordian Hood of Aiming is better than Machinist's Googles.



with Gordian Hood of Aiming you gain 17 Crit and you lose 58 Skill Speed.

those are old stat weights; si



17 crit value = 2.38
58 Skill Speed value = 1.16

Out of values, Imo Crit is better than Skill Speed by far, and overcap accuracy is not a problem.

those are old stat weights centered around only the opener iirc; skillspeed is definitely not that low

[MaulScarreign]

I don't agree with BiS list. I think that Gordian Hood of Aiming is better than Machinist's Googles.



with Gordian Hood of Aiming you gain 17 Crit and you lose 58 Skill Speed.



17 crit value = 2.38
58 Skill Speed value = 1.16

Out of values, Imo Crit is better than Skill Speed by far, and overcap accuracy is not a problem.

Where do those values come from? I've never been able to figure out them out.