Save the Armory system

[Konachibi]

Or wouldnt it be easier just to not lock it 1 class - 1 job?

Honestly, dont you see the problem is so intrinsic that it's easier/less confusing/just generally better to add jobs as a new LAYER onto the pre-existing armory system rather than trying to somehow shove it into the armory system where it doesnt belong?

err... what you just said was redundant.

1 class - 1 job, job is extra layer ontop of that class, therefore:

Yes it is generally easier/less confusing/generally better to add jobs as an extra layer, because.... that's exactly what they're doing, layering the classes with jobs.

And besides, you can't go saying "you can't put this where it doesn't belong", you didn't create the armory system or any part of FFXIV, SE did, so it is them who dictate where things can and cannot be.

Seriously though, if you don't like what they're doing with jobs, just don't play as one, therefore your problem is solved :3

[User201109011315]

err... what you just said was redundant.

1 class - 1 job, job is extra layer ontop of that class, therefore:

Yes it is generally easier/less confusing/generally better to add jobs as an extra layer, because.... that's exactly what they're doing, layering the classes with jobs.

And besides, you can't go saying "you can't put this where it doesn't belong", you didn't create the armory system or any part of FFXIV, SE did, so it is them who dictate where things can and cannot be.

Seriously though, if you don't like what they're doing with jobs, just don't play as one, therefore your problem is solved :3

Perhaps I failed to explain myself adequately. I feel like that must be the only explanation, as your interpretation of my meaning is way off. I even drew diagrams and people still mistake my meaning. I didn't think I could get any plainer. Oh well.

Here goes!

First of all, while it is true that I did not create the armory system, it is also true that Yoshi did no such thing either. So we are both at equal liberty to weigh in on the discussion. The gist of things is: Yoshi believes jobs should be advanced classes, I think they should not be advanced classes.

As per your suggestion previously, I think jobs should be something separate from the class system entirely.

Second of all, in case you hadn't noticed, what they intend to do is implement jobs in such a way that each class becomes one job. In other words, jobs will be locked to one weapon, and each class will be forced into one specific role. If any of that is above your head and seeming very relevant, may I draw your attention to the fact that classes are single weapon users. Thus jobs will be single weapon users if locked to one class. In the japanese version of the game, the classes are referred to as lance-user, sword-user, and so on. Thus to lock a job to one class is equivalent to locking one job to one weapon.

To elaborate further on the other point of "locking each class to one specific role", it is prudent to bear in mind that classes are not meant to be steadfast roles. Thus to position jobs as classes, and by extension, classes as roles, is to miss the point of the armory system. If you would kindly refer to the O.P., I explained this more thorooghly.

[User201109011315]

Yeah yeah belgian, too bad you speaking of ****shit, and none of your ****shit will bring back manual attack
nor the sandbox
nor they keep the classes like are now

also, you contracticing yourself. you say

too bad they locked CLASS to weapons, and more substantially, JOBS AREN'T LOCKET 1-1 TO CLASSES FOREVER.And btw, even with jobs you can use other classes' abilities, but not EVERYTHING.
also, changing discipline in combat ? That's broken like hell, even before to see it in motion :|

To address your point about classes being locked to weapons... well bless your little heart, that is the whole point of the classes. They are, to borrow a phrase, "weapon specialists". So of course they are locked to one weapon.

That notwithstanding, perhaps this is SE's chance to actually allow players to use multiple weapons with their job rather than limiting players yet again.

[Charismatic]

A white mage that specializes in using great axes would be the sweetest thing ever... really.

[Sav]

Keep the upcoming job system, but allow any class to be any job. Problem solved?

Clearly, certain classes will be more proficient at specific jobs, but I think we should at least be given the option.

[Shikyo]

Can... can we just wait for the jobs to come?

I agree lol early next year jan~feb when they add a few jobs you'll see what the system will be like untill then you have to wait longggg... =/

[Davorok]

Everyone is free to utilize the Class System to play solo or in small groups however they see fit.

Everyone will be expected to fulfill a Role (Job) in a Large Party, whether it be a grind party or esp. a Boss Fight.

Some PT's might be more lenient on Class Abilities/Jobs but the bottom line is that this IS an MMO not a Single-player RPG, therefore we all eventually have to conform to whatever standards are deemed optimal for Party-based-play.

Do whatever you want to do by yourself. No one is stopping you.

[Seikninkuru]

Aww, so people can't make a tanky DD healer that can solo every NM in the game anymore? What a shame. :3

Except that was never the result of anything other than broken abilities and was the result of staying within one class. So would you care to keep illustrating the fact you are either out of touch with the game or do not play it?

[Konachibi]

Perhaps I failed to explain myself adequately. I feel like that is the only explanation as your interpretation of my meaning is way off. I even drew diagrams and people still mistake my meaning. I didn't think I could get any plainer. Oh well.

Here goes!

First of all, while it is true that I did not create the armory system, it is also true that Yoshi did no such thing either. So we are both at equal liberty to weigh in on the discussion. Yoshi believes jobs should be advanced classes, I think they should not be advanced classes.

As per your suggestion previously, jobs should be something separate from the class system entirely.

Second of all, in case you hadn't noticed, what they intend to do is implement jobs in such a way that each class becomes one job. In other words, jobs will be locked to one weapon, and each class will be forced into one specific role. If that is above your head, may I draw your attention to the fact that classes are single weapon users. In the japanese version of the game, the classes are referred to lance-user, sword-user, and so on. Thus to lock a job to one class is equivalent to locking one job to one weapon.

To elaborate further on the point of "locking each class to one specific role", it is prudent to bear in mind that classes are not meant to be steadfast roles. Thus to position jobs as classes, and by extension, classes as roles, is to miss the point of the armory system. If you would kindly refer to the O.P., I explained this more thorooghly.

You wouldn't see a Gladiator wielding a magical staff and a wand.

You wouldn't see a Botanist trying to log trees with a fishing rod.

Not to run by stereotypes but I couldn't really picture a Paladin in full plate armour taking pot-shots at a marmot with a bow and arrow either.

People expect thieves to use daggers and paladins to use swords and shields and archers to use bows and arrows and miners to use mining axes etc. Because really, that's what makes them what they are, sure some diversity with the style of weaponry would be nice, like Paladins being able to use an array of 1-handed weapon types such as maces, swords and axes, heck, in the case of Gladiators they can already do this, being able to wield just a sword, a sword and shield, or a dagger with/without shield. SE haven't said anything about jobs not being able to use a small variety of similarly based weaponry.

If you try to make jobs seperate from the class system though you're just going to turn them into yet more classes. Biggest problem with that is even though it'll operate as if it were a seperate class it'll still have many of the same abilities, skills and spells as another class, which will RETRACT from the games diversity, not improve it. A 180 degree sweeping strike is a 180 degree sweeping strike, no matter what name you give it, if two classes can do a move that's too similar, one of those classes loses a tiny amount of it's appeal. Plus it'd be pretty annoying if a Paladin had just one move you'd like your Gladiator to have, so you have to rank up Paladin for days/weeks, doing all the same attacks and using the same weaponry types, just to gain that one ability.

So yeah the idea I had earlier today with the whole *going to menu, selecting job, click apply* would be nice, but if I were playing a Gladiator and switched to a Paladin, I'd expect it to be pretty much the same stuff, since they use the same weapons, wear the same armour, both use shields etc.

As for roles, Conjurers wear cloth, cloth is notoriously not good at absorbing an incoming blow from a very large and angry dragon, you couldn't make a conjurer into a tank, so it can only be used as DD or Healer... whaddya know, that's exactly what they do already. Gladiators have heavy armour, can take a beating, but have really low MP, you wouldn't want a Gladiator as your healer as he'd run out of mana almost instantly, so he's only good for DD and tanking. Weeeell whaddya know, that's exactly what he already does.

You talk about locking classes in roles using jobs, as if they aren't already to quite a degree. These 'limitation's' you say are coming with jobs already exist, the only reason you're arguing about it now is that jobs pointed out their limitations as well as their advancement. They said "We can't do this anymore, BUT we're absolutely awesome at doing THIS!" and instead of you going "ooo yay they can do this" you went "oh no they can't do that", ignoring the fact that to some extent their class-equivalent wasn't exactly any good at doing 'that' in the first place.

[Konachibi]

Except that was never the result of anything other than broken abilities and was the result of staying within one class. So would you care to keep illustrating the fact you are either out of touch with the game or do not play it?

A friend in my linkshell quite often takes on NM's by himself using Gladiator as his base class then mixing and matching a variety of spells and abilities from other classes to make himself nigh unkillable, at least for a duration of time before his MP slowly begins to simmer away, it's not a cheat, it's not an exploit, it's all within the games rules and boundaries. It's quite an amazing sight to behold and sometimes the fights can really drag on, but at the same time it's kind of shame that such a thing is do-able on your own instead of being a group activity, since NM's are sort of like 'world bosses'.

With the way jobs will more strongly dictate roles for classes, my friend won't be able to do that with new NM's, but he's gratefull for it because he'll enjoy the challenge of at least TRYING to solo one, or be happy of the fun we'll have taking one down as a group.