The Real Problem with Parsers

[Viridiana]

Buttttttt there are way to many idiots in this game who instead of sending maybe a tell or message amongst friends saying hey your dps is a bit low you can do this....we get in party chat with 7 strangers "hey DRG your DpS is 500 get your ish together" and everyone laughs at this person I got mad and defended them cause it was wrong but thus proving my point of idiots in this games...

Well, unfortunately, we aren't able to send tells in instances. Because it can be used for harassment, according to SE. Anyone else noticing a trend?

[Malevicton]

I'm in complete agreement.

As has been said many times before, there are a lot of players who don't religiously follow forums or look up a wealth of meta-game information, but who might be persuaded to get a clue if an in-game tool (rather than an irate player) gave them the notion that they were doing something very wrong.

I'm not talking about the people who more or less do what's expected of them even if it's not always optimal; this is more about the legit garbage-tier players who aren't even aware that their lack of skill is seriously inconveniencing others.

Someone's right to be terrible at the game extends about as far as it begins to cause others to have a similarly miserable experience, IMO.

Just gonna piggyback off this post a bit cause it brings up a good point I'd like to expand on a bit; I wanna point out that when people refer to terrible dps, it's not usually someone who hasn't scoured for the latest and greatest meta info. If you're pulling like 700-900dps then most people are gonna be chill with you. You won't impress anyone, but you won't piss anyone off either. We're usually talking about the mute bards, the 350dps drg, the ice mages, etc. Idk everyone else's experiences with df, but mine are pretty much this: http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png all the time and it gets annoying.

If you're a good player and you use df, then yeah you have a responsibility to do the best you can with whatever group gets formed. But why does that only ever seem to apply to the good players? Bad players get a pass every time. Bad players have the same social responsibility to at least attempt to not be awful, to not actively be a detriment to their group.

[rappa]

The discussion brings me a situation happened in a turn 10 farm.

I joined a "PF Turn 10 farm" i need the dex earring because in 3 months i don't see the drop.

A scholar doing 300 dps, me doing 550-600 with echo, a drg doing 450, but a blm and another bard doing 200-250 dps. Was the first time i saw Imdugud to reach +12 stacks.
Obviously we wiped and the bard wrote "noobs, i'll add you to BL. I don't wanna play with you". I feel ashamed and go mad, because one of the reason to unable kill the boss was his dps and i can't say it.

I avoid DF and PF, i am an average player, i do savage and i would help PF/DF to clear content, but they are piss me off all the time with low dps, bad manners and shit talk. I don't deserve that and i give my condolences to good players which have to clear content via DF/PF.

[Tsilyi]

I'm still waiting for the day that any person who's ever argued against a parser and then took time out of their day to belittle me about my stance on it, to come up with a legitimate reason why a PERSONAL PARSER shouldn't be implemented.

I invite every one of you against parsers to come up with an argument. The main argument we always come back to is that it can be used as harassment. Well you can't be harassed for something no one else can see. I want to know my numbers. I couldn't care less about yours until it becomes detrimental to the groups success. There's no argument that I can think of where me knowing my own numbers at any given time would be bad.

I'm not for or against the widespread use of parsers and cannot conform or deny whether I use them myself on certain content but I can give you an easy argument against personal parsers. I'm not sure why you think personal parsers are the answer because the argument against them is so simple: There is NO SUCH THING. A personal parser stop being personal the moment it is introduced into the game. Want to know how? "send us a SS of your parse or kick" or the like. Yes, you can do this on PS4 at the very least using a screenshot sent to another PS4 user.

So as soon as any kind of parser is introduced into the game they can and will be abused in negative ways. I play on PC so it doesn't matter at all to me, but yes. An easy argument can be made to dismantle the "personal parser" idea, but like I said, I don't care either way.

[Malevicton]

snip

I really don't think the "send us ss of parse or kick" thing will ever happen. Not even sure where people get that idea, let alone why everyone seems to think it's the natural conclusion. It feels sorta paranoid to me tbh.

However, if they really went the personal parser route then people will just keep using the parsers they use now. A personal parser would be a downgrade of functionality.

[Tsilyi]

I really don't think the "send us ss of parse or kick" thing will ever happen. Not even sure where people get that idea, let alone why everyone seems to think it's the natural conclusion. It feels sorta paranoid to me tbh.

it's not paranoia, and I cannot divulge whether I personally use a parser on content, but I can guarantee that once any kind of parser is allowed by SE, people will become more overt in their exclusion of people by utilizing it even if it's a "personal" parser. Honestly, I think that the instances of parser abuse are probably lower than people claim because people tend to overemphasize their bad experiences... but I can tell you that the scenario I posed will absolutely happen. I am not worried about it, but it will happen.

Basically, what I'm saying is that an argument CAN be made against personal parsers. The post I was responding to dared someone to come up with a retort to personal parser and so I did, really easily. Parsers are good for testing different rotations and I wouldn't be against them if they entered the game at large, but they can and will be used to exclude people regardless of whether they are marketed as "personal" parsers.

[Aomine1992]

I avoid DF and PF, i am an average player, i do savage and i would help PF/DF to clear content, but they are piss me off all the time with low dps, bad manners and shit talk. I don't deserve that and i give my condolences to good players which have to clear content via DF/PF.

Lol terrible!! I'm one of those DF/PF ppl cause I don't have patients to wait on my slow FC peeps. I always see the bad dps like a SMN using Titan or no pet at all, or a BLM not using enochian (ex roulette has never been longer) but I just roll with it cause I'm just so used to bad players now I don't pay it any attention unless we are in like raid content then I just pray that someone turns into a super golem lol

[Malevicton]

snip

No offense, but you didn't really give any support or evidence to why you think it would happen. You just reiterated that you believe it will happen. Which is fine to believe, but isn't really evidence of anything; it doesn't really convince anyone that's not already on your side.

[Tsilyi]

No offense, but you didn't really give any support or evidence to why you think it would happen. You just reiterated that you believe it will happen. Which is fine to believe, but isn't really evidence of anything; it doesn't really convince anyone that's not already on your side.

If you think I have a side then my god I have no idea what you're reading. The support is that people have made posts on the forums about being excluded by even third party illegal parsers, so it only stands to reason that the same will happen with "personal" parsers. Do I need to reiterate that I'm not against parsers in general and I think they can be a helpful tool to improve or compare yourself with others of the same class especially? I probably do (though I'm not sure you'll see it the third time either) because I think you are just reading something in your mind and want to argue for no reason. You're talking past me. Do I also need to add that I am not worried about being excluded by any kind of parser, or will you not read that either? -_-

Honestly, I'm not here to argue, and I'm not going to bother posting any more to respond to some mysterious fight you seem to want to have with me. A poster asked someone to come up with a reason that personal parsers wouldn't basically be a no-brainer alternative to allowing full parsers in the game and so I did. I have no quarrel with you or the original poster that I responded to. So I don't understand what justified your responses.

[Malevicton]

snip

I'm reading your posts, there's no need to be insulting. Semantics of the word "side" aside, you were making a claim that I disagree with. I haven't really seen these post of people being excluded by 3rd party parsers, I've only seen hypotheticals about people being worried that they might be excluded by parsers. Feel free to add links to prove that wrong if you want. Even if it is, that still doesn't follow that people will require ss of personal parsers.

You don't need to reiterate your personal take on parsers. Those are fine. I'm not talking past you, I'm pointing out where I disagree, which was on that one point, and saying why. You seem a bit offended that I disagree with you on something, tbh, though maybe I'm misinterpreting your tone.