The Real Problem with Parsers

[Fendred]

I think they should redesign the damage dealers to have a "burst mode" where their attacks are visibly different than their normal rotations. Then make fights about taking advantage of weaknesses in the boss's defenses. That way, if a parser is added, it is easier to tell when someone is under geared or under performing. If they are not using bursts at the right time, then there is a visible clue as to what is going on.

It could also help them add new abilities without pushing the ability bar, since they could overlap the burst attacks with the base ones. It would give each ability two modes.

[Erim-Nelhah]

Another question to the anti-parser crowd: I'm a DRK, and can do around 600 DPS with Grit up. Am I an "elitist" for expecting (decently-geared) DPS to be able to do more DPS than that, and possibly wanting to point it out to them if they're not?

--Erim Nelhah

[Clarkamite]

Another question to the anti-parser crowd: I'm a DRK, and can do around 600 DPS with Grit up. Am I an "elitist" for expecting (decently-geared) DPS to be able to do more DPS than that, and possibly wanting to point it out to them if they're not?

--Erim Nelhah

I have a feeling some people would say yes even though you're absolutely correct. As a DPS main seeing other DPS, especially BLM's, play poorly hurts my soul.

[Elazu]

Another question to the anti-parser crowd: I'm a DRK, and can do around 600 DPS with Grit up. Am I an "elitist" for expecting (decently-geared) DPS to be able to do more DPS than that, and possibly wanting to point it out to them if they're not?

--Erim Nelhah

You would definitely be considered an elitist on this forum. Anyone who expects others to at least be somewhat competent is. Because it's their 15 bucks and they are therefore entitled to waste everyone else's time.

[Aiselia]

I like how a question that's asked to the anti-parser crowd has only been responded to by people who aren't anti-parser making up answers for the anti-parser crowd.

Strawmen are a good way to practice your rotations, but a bad way to make a point.

Also, lol, you put forth effort and "considered" personal parsers.

Which is more effort than most pro-parser arguments who demand all or nothing.

A number with out something to compare it to, means nothing.

A number without something proper to compare it to means nothing. If I don't have 2 BRDs in my run when I'm running a BRD, I don't know how much damage I should be doing as a BRD. I can see the damage a DRG is doing, but they do different damage.

if they don't come to read up on proper rotations already, they aren't coming for a number that means nothing to them.

If they don't care enough to find out if they're doing good damage compared to the CORRECT class, why would they care what they're doing compared to the rest of their group anyways?

Lets look at that, why would they, what do they gain.

Group wipes, DPS was too low, people ask for parses to see who could pick up their socks. They gain tips if they're willing to listen.

your parsers will make everyone jerkfaces logic

Which I've never said.

They also don't allow you to diagnose potential problem areas in a run.

How does a party-wide parser allow you to do this that a personal parser wouldn't if they show the same information except not to everybody?

Personal parsers are a huge half measure.

Which you should be happy with if that's where they want to start.

So please don't claim some "I, on the other hand put deep thought into this" status.

I didn't say I put deep thought into it. I said I put some effort into it, unlike the majority of pro-parsers. Like you. What have you considered as a way to get SE to add parsers in?

you used disabled people as a defense against parsers

No I didn't. That would be extremely difficult since I've never made an argument against parsers. I've voiced the common argument against parsers which is apparently the reasoning for SE not adding them and how people here either fail to even attempt to disprove it or outright prove it to be a fair fear.

Disabled people were a side point about whether everybody can objectively put out the same numbers even with equal gear and whether everybody should be held to the same standard with equal gear regardless of any other factors.

So yeah, overall, your problem appears to be that you completely made up my argument and are trying to disprove some things I never said. You should fix that.

[Cynfael]

Strawmen are a good way to practice your rotations, but a bad way to make a point.

You get points for a clever turn of phrase, but you really can't expect many intelligent anti-parser arguments. This isn't necessarily because people are stupid, but I think that a few points are relevant:


1. Many players who might object to parsers probably don't even frequent the forums. Of those players, I bet that a good portion aren't even currently aware of the existence of parsers.

2. There aren't many arguments against the inclusion of some form of official parsing that haven't been presented many times before and been, in most cases, soundly rebutted. At best we get nebulous arguments that claim that official parsing will contribute negatively to the culture of the game; at worst we get nonsense arguments about parsers turning people anti-social, many of which pretend that parsers aren't already in use.

3. The fact that parsers are in use goes a long way to dispel any notion of disadvantaged (or just plain bad) people being excluded from content any more than they already are.

4. Some players looking for a form of official parser want it because they play on a console so that they can enjoy the same kind of metric feedback that PC players already do.

[Soko90]

I understand the toxicity that parsers can create, but at the same time, especially in a game like this, people don't need parsers to tell if someone is bad or not. It's easy to spot the dragoon whose not using heavy thrust or the blm whose rotation is blizzard spamming.

This game doesn't allow for much freedom, classes are designed in a way that there is very few variables in the way a rotation can be done. You wanna just cast blizzard on blm? Too bad, your losing hundreds of dps, burdening the whole group, and gonna get flamed for it, and it's not even the parsers fault.

In a game where the goal is to essentially never stop improving, SOMETHING is needed to give you feedback on what your doing in combat and whether it's good or bad, and no, wiping in content is not proper feedback. I'd rather see a system like parsing added to promote players always striving to at least see THEIR personal numbers improve. This is an RPG for crying out loud, numbers are everything in them.

[Havenchild]

Funny thing is, if parsers had been introduced much early on when, SE was questioned about it during Beta, we wouldn't even be talking about the cause and effect that some people are trying to latch off of. In hindsight, SE made a bad move then as the eventual movement of content into a more DPS punishing trend is becoming mainstream now. Now we just have people that don't understand the usefulness of parsers only focused on DPS harassment as if that's the single only thing it does, show DPS.

I find it extremely hard to believe most of the community whose even against parsers has actually used one. I'm also fairly sure this entire debate should go to vote from the in-game community and if it did, a full parser would win over any half assed or no parser option.

[karateorangutang]

If it weren't for console limitations I would agree that there doesnt need to be an in game parser. However, with the fact that alot of us don't have an option that some other users have leaves me at a loss there. Console users don't even have the option available to them, so giving some way for those players to more accurately watch their numbers sounds good to me. I have a hard time believing that if your even remotely competent at your job that this will be game breaking for anyone. Maybe I'm a glass half full kinda person, but I'm just hearing alot of doomsayers in this thread that automatically thing that if a parser gets put in then its gonna be a vote kick fiesta. The fact of the matter is if you have eyesight, and you can watch the screen while you play, then you can spot an under performing DPS from miles away. This isn't gonna change that.

[ColdestHeaven]

It's your 15 bucks, but it's still a team game. You work with other 3 or 7 or 23 players to clear a certain content, all of them paying as much as you. Expecting a bare minimum (trying to use a correct rotation instead of facerolling on the keyboard) is not elitist, no matter how you put it. It is just not - it's not something that would "purge the sickness" and leave the top ones, so the very term elitist is wrong.