So, pretty dead lately....

[Obysuca]

That's a four entrée buffet table right there. Quit focusing on just one dish.

You completely missed what I said >_> I said two dungeons for eso. No one in their right mind is going to grind alex for eso

So what's there left to do for progression after Tuesday when you have more than half an hour a day to play?

Absolutely jack shit.

^ All of this. See, this person gets it.

I feel the people who say that there's "so much content to do" and that they "haven't run out of content yet" only play for 30 mins to maybe an hour ish a day, when some of us, even with work and school, can still play for a good 4-5 hours a day

[Ashkendor]

I feel the people who say that there's "so much content to do" and that they "haven't run out of content yet" only play for 30 mins to maybe an hour ish a day, when some of us, even with work and school, can still play for a good 4-5 hours a day

I'm on the game 12+ hours some days and I haven't even come close to running out of things to do.

[Obysuca]

I'm on the game 12+ hours some days and I haven't even come close to running out of things to do.

12+ hours? You must either be taking everything at a snail's pace or choosing not to do the content >_> lol 12+ hours a day and you can go from 50-60 in 3-5 days depending on your job, you can fully finish every single sidequest with your first 60. Crafting/gathering leves can get those to 60 in a day or two and alex/eso are weekly capped, so after a certain amount of doing it, theres no point in doing it until Tuesday. Everything worthwhile in doing has a small weekly cap (450 tomes, 1 loot per floor), so with 12 hours a day, you can actually cap eso and finish alex on a Tuesday.

Unless you count being "on the game for 12 hours" as in having 2-3 hours of afking >_> Because you can play for 5 hours a day and finish everything for the week by Thursday. I really hope you're not counting achievements as "running out of things to do", because I hate to be the person to tell you, but achievements =/= content

[Mykll]

I honestly don't know but it's a bit bothersome to see the "they should do more for <me>" comments because that is arrogant at best and highly detrimental to the longevity of the game at worst.

Two dungeons. That I'm quite sick of seeing. And if I want Esoteric tomes, I get to do one of those two dungeons.

...

I don't craft. I don't gather. ... I find them both boring as hell. So what's there left to do for progression after Tuesday when you have more than half an hour a day to play?

<cough>

PVP - We have 1 new game mode which is a great thing, however, because of restrictions we've kind of lost 2. So instead of 3 varied games we're stuck with 1.

...

I'd love to have a level 60 whm for PVP but I really can't bring myself to do it.

If PVP is bad, why do you want another character at 60 to PVP?

I feel the people who say that there's "so much content to do" and that they "haven't run out of content yet" only play for 30 mins to maybe an hour ish a day, when some of us, even with work and school, can still play for a good 4-5 hours a day

Count me as one of those that think there is a lot of content to do. AND, also plays a good number of hours each day. Maybe because I read the quests, even the NPCs before I take the quest and after, to get more flavor. Maybe because I don't take the quickest and fastest past to 60, but because there are still tons left to do, and things I love to enjoy. And my highest is only level 55.

I really hope you're not counting achievements as "running out of things to do", because I hate to be the person to tell you, but achievements =/= content

Correction:

achievements =/= content that Obysuca wants to do.

You seem to think that content only equals progression, and yet so many people also don't like the gear progression. I agree, achievements are not progression, as far as making your character stronger. They are all vanity gear, titles, minions, etc. But, still content that can be done.

[Obysuca]

Maybe because I read the quests, even the NPCs before I take the quest and after, to get more flavor. Maybe because I don't take the quickest and fastest past to 60, but because there are still tons left to do, and things I love to enjoy. And my highest is only level 55.

I've read every single dialogue from every quest in the game, did all the side quests, got 60 within the first week of HW. I also have 5 other 60s that I did through dungeons and only dungeons, not fate spamming and didn't even rush through those and they're all a minimum of i183 - i192. Wait until you're 60 and you'll realize there's not much to do either when all you're given is 2 dungeons and 4 bosses a week.

"And my highest is only level 55. so I don't know crap about what little there is to do after leveling" is more like it. Tbh, until you're 60 and stuck with 2 dungeons to do, your opinion really doesn't hold much weight. Anyone can be far from cap and think theres plenty to do. That would be like a lvl 1 who just joined the game, giving an opinion on what they assume is after leveling, when they've yet to even get to cap and find out whats there.

Maybe you've taken breaks or only play 2 days a week, but HW has been out for about 3 ish months and you say you "play a good number of hours" and only lvl 55? Judging by your join date, you've been here since 2.0, so even with reading all the dialogue and not taking the fastest route to 60, you've had plenty of time to get there, which makes me think by "good number of hours" you really mean 1-2 and not even every day. And like I've said before, if you only play 1-2 hours and 1-3 days a week, then sure, there's plenty to do, but a lot of us play every day or at least 5/7 days a week and for a good 5+ hours a day, so we know there's not really much to do.

[Mykll]

... Snipped...

Congrats you rushed from 50 to 60. That is how you picked to do content from he new expansion. Me? I leveled up one of the new jobs to 50 first. Then the next job. Then the third new job. So, no, I didn't rush straight from an already level 50 character straight to 60. And when my Arcanist has hit 60 doing the quests and what not? 11 more jobs to level up.

Why else am I not 60 yet? Let's look at my job levels. 53, 53, 55, 53, 53, 53, 54, 53, 52, 53, 54. Sure if I would have picked one of my 50s, and marched on, that job would be 60, and then went to the next 60, and marched forward, one by one, like you, would have multiple 60s. I choose to play it differently this expansion. So, it is going to be a quite a bit of time to get 13 jobs to level 60, 8 crafters to level 60, and 3 gatherers to level 60. And, I have not even touched upon Gold Saucer.

Let's go before HW expansion. I had all DoW and DoM at 50. For quite a while. Guess what? I still had plenty of stuff for me to do.

Not to mention all the crafting and gathering off-ramps I have taken along the way. Which, I know you hate so you completely dismiss that entire part of the content of this game.

So, basically all you care about is maxing Level and Item Level of Disciples of War and / or Magic. Let's say there was no weekly cap on any tomes or gear drops. And instead of 2 dungeons there were 10. Great, you bought and upgraded max ilvl to one of your level 60s in a week. Next week? You would be complaining that you would have to run the same 10 dungeons, but would do it, and get your second character max ilvl. Third week? You'd come back to these forums and say yet again that there was nothing to do in this game.

Every... single... MMO... suffers from this. You hit max level, you get best in slot everywhere.... Then what? No more progression until next path or expansion. You keep commenting about the old MMOs like EQ. Been a few years since I logged in there, but they didn't have duty finder. Nothing could really be done solo. There were no quest logs. They had raid lockouts. You were forced to build a community on your server, to get anything done. Oh, and in those glorious MMOs of yesteryear that you love so much? You could still hit max level, could still get best in slot everywhere. Oh, and there were still crafting and gathering which you would ignore. But, max level, best gear... then what? You are in the exact same situation. Whether DDO, EQ, UO, DAOC, WoW, FFXIV, etc....

Am I blindly following Yoshi around and just in awe of everything he has done or that is in FFXIV? No. Plenty of small gripes to be had. Today's gamer overall is just different from those that were willing to grind out things in EQ. No quest givers on map? No quest log? Actually had to remember stuff or write it down? A tremendous amount of steps to get attunement or whatever it was called to a raid? Getting relics required a LOT of help? Yes, SOME people still enjoy that. Judging by the number from WoW and others, it was evident that gamers wanted to get away from some of that. They wanted easy quest givers. They wanted to know exactly where on the map to go kill things. They didn't want a bunch of steps to get attuned to something. They didn't want to set up camp like in KC and mindlessly grind the same respawning mobs for hours. But, what did we have back then? There was also more of a community. Dungeon Finders, cross server, a lot of that has killed off a lot of the community factors, as well as some aspects of games where you never really had to leave a city to get stuff done because of those DFs.

What long lasting content did EQ give us, that built a community? Or because of the (compared to today's MMOs) lack of features, that required you to build a community?

Absolutely, there are still some things that EQ and UO has done better than yes FFXIV. EQ Guild list. You can edit notes. You can export. Sort. That is just ONE thing. Send tells inside dungeons. I am not blind to the shortcomings of FFXIV. Nor do I think that EQ, OR WoW, OR FFXIV is the best MMO ever made. Are there some parts that have been done better in each MMO than in others? Sure.

You comparing a variety of content to hanging out with friends and such is flawed too. You want to level up, and you only want your Eso gear. You don't want to do PVP, crafting, gathering. Great, you don't have to. But wanting your Eso gear is like going to your job. You only get your money, from going to your job. You (usually) don't get to pick different jobs to go to. You go to one job, you go to one office, you sit behind one desk. Again, usually. You want to instead hang out with friends (social RP stuff in game) you can do that. But you won't be getting paid (Eso) to do so. You want to go to the movies (crafting) you can. But you won't get paid (Eso). You want to watch TV (gathering)? Once again. You can. But you won't get paid. You only want to get paid (Eso) and that does limit you on what you can do in order to get paid (Eso).

And again, if there were no caps, or weekly lockouts, then what? All your 60s would be in Eso. Ok, then what? You would be in exactly the same situation, except now you no longer need to get paid (Eso) because all of your bills (gear) have been paid off, and any extra money (Eso) is now useless.

[Obysuca]

Congrats you rushed from 50 to 60.

Rushed? Give me a friggin break LOL The game practically throws levels at you without even trying. Go do Aery at 55, by the end of it you'll be almost 1/2 to 56. I'm sorry if you're bad at optimally using your time, but that wasn't rushing at all. That was doing every single quest and READING ALL of it. Doing a single dungeon for the story. Doing daily hunts. There was zero rushing involved when hunts give you up towards 300k a day, leveling roulette can give 200k+ and high lvl gives 100k+

I leveled up one of the new jobs to 50 first. Then the next job. Then the third new job.

Don't even try to pull that BS. The first thing I did was unlock mch and got that 50. Took it to 60 soon after through all of the quests and MSQ, all without rushing. Ast and drk are 52. Pre-3.0, I had every job 50.

On another note, you can get esoterics through PvP, Alex and extreme primals.

Thing is, you get around 5 ish from ex and maybe 10 from alex. No one in their right mind is going to do that when expert gives 40. Now, if ex and alex ALSO gave 40, then sure, that would be more variety.

[Nadirah]

<cough>




If PVP is bad, why do you want another character at 60 to PVP?




Count me as one of those that think there is a lot of content to do. AND, also plays a good number of hours each day. Maybe because I read the quests, even the NPCs before I take the quest and after, to get more flavor. Maybe because I don't take the quickest and fastest past to 60, but because there are still tons left to do, and things I love to enjoy. And my highest is only level 55.




Correction:

achievements =/= content that Obysuca wants to do.

You seem to think that content only equals progression, and yet so many people also don't like the gear progression. I agree, achievements are not progression, as far as making your character stronger. They are all vanity gear, titles, minions, etc. But, still content that can be done.

So basically you're telling us to do stuff in game that we don't like to do just so we have something to do?

how about no?

Edit:

I play this game to kill monsters and save the planet.

not kill other players trying to interfere with my grand company's plans.
not to outfit other adventurers trying to do the same thing.

I'm here to kill shit and take their loot.

Capice?

[Obysuca]

So basically you're telling us to do stuff in game that we don't like to do just so we have something to do?

how about no?

Exactly. Whenever we bring up valid points on how theres lack of content to do, the only reply people can think of is "There's achievements" "Theres crafting/gathering" "Capped MGP?" (yes, I've seen this one lol) because even they too, deep down, know theres not much to do and thats all they can rely on to argue back. They're just blindly following Yoshi and accept everything he gives us as "the best and most content a mmo has given", which is false, very very false and they're defending bad game design. Bad as in, it won't keep a community or last long, sure, it'll get money for a bit, but in the long run it'll run dry of players and die off / f2p way faster than it should.

Take a look at the numbers. 3? 4? million copies sold. Now how many still have an active sub? about 600k-700k. Out of those active subs, how many have people who are actively playing and not just running on extra time bought? Maybe about 300k-400k. Out of those, how many are left that aren't rmt? Perhaps 300k or so. Think about it. 3-4 million copies sold and if you only count actual players, not rmt and not counting the people who have an active account but aren't currently playing, there's only about 300k ish (not total population, thats more 600k-700k). You also have to remember, a lot of people bought extra copies so they could get the refer a friend thing, so SE counts those as "players" too. Why do you think SE won't allow us to see how many players are online when we do a /sea all, like they did in XI? They don't want people to find out how little there really is, because it'd burst their bubble of thinking that XIV is a "perfect" mmo.

A good portion of that 3-4 million quit before 2.3 and it's been dropping since. Sure, it's gone up every so often, but it doesn't stay up for long because the content is stale and its the same repeat of what we get every update.
MMOs used to add new content and build off of it, rather than trash what they just introduced, resulting in us having the same amount of content forever, with no variety. If SE doesn't do something about the lack of content and the little content thats added being a rehashed version of the stuff we just got done doing, I don't see XIV lasting another 2 years, at least not p2p.

My question to those people defending this design is,

Take a look at all mmos from 2005 to now. How many of those still exist or haven't gone f2p that followed the current trend of design?

Now look at mmos from 99-03 that are still up and running, some even p2p that actually gave us long lasting content that built a community. Now tell me which has a better game design?

[Intaki]

I play this game to kill monsters and save the planet.

not kill other players trying to interfere with my grand company's plans.
not to outfit other adventurers trying to do the same thing.

I'm here to kill shit and take their loot.

Capice?

And other players are here to do other things.

What makes your wants and desires take precedence? If the game is not performing to your satisfaction, quit.