Idea: Split Archer into Bard and Ranger

[Shaddai]

Ladies and gentlemen, prepare to have your minds blown......
Why not make bard a support bow healer and ranger the dps branch. Making bard more support than healing and songs with regen/heals. In terms of healing it would probably be the weakest, but in terms of support it would be the strongest.
Other mind blown ideas:
Make marauder branch. Heavy hammer user into a tank and make war a dps. Have pug branch into mnk as dps and wrestlers as tanks. Have mnk instead of "fist of" moves why not make them triple stance dance with moves particular to each stance. Have gladiators branch into tanks being Pld and Red mages into dps. Have rogues/ drg branch into 2 dps each. Nin would be a single sword so the other branch would be dual swordsmen. Lancers can turn into drg and Holy lancermen?Have conj branch into 2 healers. Whm and bishop. Leave astro, drk, and mch but add samurai as an extra job. these will be the unique of each healer, tank, melee, ranged.

Wanna a cigarette?

[RiceisNice]

Why not make bard a support bow healer and ranger the dps branch. Making bard more support than healing and songs with regen/heals. In terms of healing it would probably be the weakest, but in terms of support it would be the strongest.

Like an astro. And you saw how that went before they had to buff their heals to be on par with WHM/SCH.

Make marauder branch. Heavy hammer user into a tank and make war a dps.

Deliverance says hi. Warrior can fulfill the role of dps just fine tthe way it is. You'd only end up making more carbon copies by adding a tanking/dps branch to marauder.

Have pug branch into mnk as dps and wrestlers as tanks. Have mnk instead of "fist of" moves why not make them triple stance dance with moves particular to each stance.

Have fun trying to do pugilist positionals while tanking.

Have gladiators branch into tanks being Pld and Red mages into dps. Have rogues/ drg branch into 2 dps each. Nin would be a single sword so the other branch would be dual swordsmen. Lancers can turn into drg and Holy lancermen?Have conj branch into 2 healers. Whm and bishop. Leave astro, drk, and mch but add samurai as an extra job. these will be the unique of each healer, tank, melee, ranged.

Wanna a cigarette?

There's a difference between meaningful ideas that have concepts behind it, and ideas that are thrown out for funies. Yours are the latter and really doesn't spur much of a discussion relate to the topic to be honest.

I still stand by this; jobs like red mage and the like should honestly be their own class rather than a branching one; having only 10 skills does the entire job no justice to give it it's own identity. They'd look herp a derp doing things like rage of haloney.

[Shaddai]

No type of creativity

I'm limited to 1000 characters per post. If you want more depth, I can provide. For your first point I don't think things are super great among healers. I like the idea of having main healers and support healers. People will always complain so that does not matter. Deliverance means nothing. It is just like monks have fist of fire. Jobs make the class what it is. You are severely underestimating the effect of changing jobs from a base class. It also will helps because you technically are lvling 2 jobs at once to provide variety. Level a tank and tell me what's the deference between before 30 and after 30 for example. Your third point makes sense I accept that I suppose a hand to hand tank would be difficult off pug unless they remove positional with lets say a lvl 30 tank stance which could remove positional req's. Try to be a little creative here. Extra jobs already provide new bases. Give SE a break in that regard.

[Noelzzz]

provide variety.

Finally someone that understand the potential of branching jobs

[RiceisNice]

I can provide. For your first point I don't think things are super great among healers. I like the idea of having main healers and support healers. People will always complain so that does not matter.

It's not even that people were complaining. It was an actual problem because you'd never see astros in cutting edge savage progression. Objectively, trying to have an astro heal in savage was detrimental to your party, because their healing output (which is their role) was lower than that of WHM and SCH, and their support abilties did not outweigh that.

Deliverance means nothing. It is just like monks have fist of fire. Jobs make the class what it is. You are severely underestimating the effect of changing jobs from a base class.

A warrior plays the same in delvierance as they were in defiance. A warrior plays the same in defiance as they were as a marauder. You are severely underestimating how far rooted the jobs are to the base class.

Level a tank and tell me what's the deference between before 30 and after 30 for example

.
There is quite literally no difference. At level 30 all they get is a stance, but they use the same pre-level 30 abilties as they were before. How am I supposed to make an argument that they would play any more different with a role change, using nothing but maim-extension combos (which is rooted to marauder, mind you)

Your third point makes sense I accept that I suppose a hand to hand tank would be difficult off pug unless they remove positional with lets say a lvl 30 tank stance which could remove positional req's. Try to be a little creative here. Extra jobs already provide new bases. Give SE a break in that regard.

Extra jobs provide new bases. Branching jobs do not, because they're sharing move sets with the base class. I'm all for adding new jobs, but making them branch off an existing class is literally shooting themselves in the leg in regards to what they can add. Arcanist has only one healing spell. Trying to branch any jobs off an existing tanking class (gladiator and marauder) is sticking them with all the defensive cooldowns and enmnity combos that comes with said classes. Not only do they not thematically match the branching jobs, it creates balancing issues because you don't want a dps or healer having access to powerful tanking cooldowns.

Because, for some jobs, thief and ranger specifically but there are others, devs used iconic weapons or abilities belonging to iconic jobs, doing some kind of mixed classes. What if my favorite weapons are daggers but at the same time i dont like mudra system? same goes for bow, what if i like the bow but i dont like the bard-ish play style? Doing branching jobs they would give me the option to choose. This doesnt mean that extra jobs will not considered imo. Not all jobs can come from branching, this apply just to some of them

Then it honestly does not sound like final fantasy is catering to your sense of aesthetics. They'd be far better off making weapons like longbows and dual swords for new jobs than trying to squeeze in branching jobs and limiting the amount of options the new job has. Otherwise you're essentially trying to force a certain gameplay onto a class/job because you personally do not like the original gameplay ("I like using a staff but I hate cast times", for example)

[Aiselia]

it creates balancing issues because you don't want a dps or healer having access to powerful tanking cooldowns.

Not to mention the nightmare of attempting to balance that it would take to make them do enough DPS to be comparable to the other classes without being able to use the class' base skills. A DPS branching off a Gladiator would have to do comparable damage to the other three melee to warrant actually using, but only within 10 skills. A DRG has 10 skills in their normal GCD rotation alone, so not counting their various buffs and OGCD attacks. A DPS doing comparable damage limited to only around 10 (okay, maybe they could use Riot Blade to refill MP or something) skills from their Job would pretty much need to be the simplest of all the DPS classes because you'd either have very few OGCDs and cooldowns to manage in order to have a lengthy GCD combo or a really simple GCD 1-2-3 combo with a few OGCDs to squeeze in.

[Shaddai]

Stuff

Stopped reading after you said their is little difference before and after 30. Both oaths, Dragon kick, Jumps in general. Sorry I'm no long paying attention to you.
Ok so a couple things. First enimity needs rework in general. Second people have already gone back BECAUSE of the extra jobs, so third times the charm? I do not agree with middle grounds, so I think either make entirely new classes with similar things is more of "carbon copying", or the hybrids people ask for are skill tree which is branching. I'd prefer branching. As far as savage is concerned it was made as an option. If you get eso's then challenge savage then its not as big of a deal. You dont have to go in with bare minimum available gear but no one waits to get stronger to challenge the hard mode of a raid. I suggested and evolution of the game, not adding new stuff of a poor foundation. Fix old stuff then add new to make things smoother.

[RiceisNice]

....

If you're not going to bother reading the other end of the discussion, I'm honestly not sure why you're even posting then. How does a paladin play differently with(out) sword/shield oath? The former two are literally buffs that does not change their rotational setup. Their post 60 skills are accomplished by what marauder does without needing warrior skills. Dragon kick, among the other monk skills, do nothing to drastically change the formula that pugilist has set up. It's a new skill, but it's a skill that has the same functionally as the other pugilist skills (form requirement, positional bonus).

Second people have already gone back BECAUSE of the extra jobs, so third times the charm? I do not agree with middle grounds, so I think either make entirely new classes with similar things is more of "carbon copying", or the hybrids people ask for are skill tree which is branching. I'd prefer branching.

This is an oxymoron if you're trying to avoid carbon copies; Trying to branch two jobs from a class means they have the same foundation, especially if they're remaining the same role. If they aren't the same role, then you better hope that it's not branching off a tank because of so many enmnity and mitigation tools being built into the class itself. You have much developmental room to work with by creating a new job entirely than trying to work another one off a base class, while considering all the balancing and such.

[Shaddai]

Stuff

Please tell me your joking. You can't be serious. Have you played the game? Dragon kick does nothing to change rotation? Sword/ shield oath make no differnce for paladins? Please make it stop. I can't even..........................................................