Idea: Split Archer into Bard and Ranger

[RiceisNice]

This said, I don't think the whole of ACN (all 18 abilities) need a complete remake. For example, Bio and Bio II could have become HoTs under the effect of the SCH crystal. Bane could have become a way to spread HoTs to other party members. Sacred Soil could have become the "alternate" version of Shadow Flare. When Yoshida talked about SCH being focused on healing over time, that's what I was expecting, not a singular HoT cast via the Fairy and a bunch of shields.

You'd have to give a citation on that because the current SCH has no resemblance of HoT Healing (Which was given to WHM again who has emphasis on hp restoration, which breaks down into HoTs). And even then it'd all have to come into place thematically and composition wise (WHM already fills that meta, unless you want them to be the shield oriented healer instead of a job whose lore is centered around planning ahead and military tactics). I'd also take everything that yoshida says with a grain of salt, since not all of them either comes to pass or as we expected (such as MCH ammo usage and the two ranged classes in general).

Correct on both accounts. SCH would still have Ruin I/II and Miasma I/II from its parent class. And who's to say the job abilities (remember that Sacred Soil is no longer a lv50 job skill but a skill you'd gain from learning Shadow Flare) wouldn't include maybe 1 DPS skill? Broil would have been a good candidate to replace Sacred Soil as the lv50 quest reward.

Lustrate is the level 50 job skill. Shadowflare is a level 50 class skill, sacred soil is a level 45 job skill. This sort of approach would take a lot more work on a job whose already functioning well in the current set up.



You still would. Your DPS relative to the DPS would just be less.

The intent is not to kill off SCH DPS, but to reduce it while also making the job crystals bring about a bigger change to gameplay. This way one job crystal becomes a sort of extension to the parent class, while the other changes aspects of the parent class to become its own thing. I admit it's easier to do this with caster jobs than it is to do with melee since you can recycle casting animations. Melee jobs would likely require brand new animations and more.

Job crystals in a sense act as the "second half" of the class that it's being added onto in the way they add onto it. Like you said, it'd require changes to the class abilities to make each job crystal more feasible, but if we're going that route, is it necessary to force a job into that soul crystal anyway compared to giving them a new slate to work with? In regards to scholar there's a plethora of redesigning and balancing just to make it work (and in this case, for the sake of doing so since SCHs are pretty well off at the moment)

Not if you were to tie enmity and survivability directly to the tank stance and adjust post-30 scaling to make it required to stay in tank stance to hold the mob and live through its attacks. Note: this would require some ability reshuffling, such as making PLD get Shield Oath at lv30.

That'd actually sounds really really boring from a tank perspective outside of a raid environment. Not to mention if the enemies are that strong, then dps/healers would die if they even got breathed on.

The end question is what sort of role do you want the job crystals to be. I see it as something that just adds onto the class to complete it, rather than a "promotion" system of sorts that some MMOs have. Branching would work a lot better if it was done eariler in the levleing process (at say, 15) to diverse the abilities some more, rather than changing existing skills this late into the game.

[Shurrikhan]

And even though they were designed to split, sch/smn still had a host of problems, one of which being SE can't buff any acn skill without affecting both of them. Even if we do dps/dps split we would run into similar problems.

And, so? They can change this system at any time. There's nothing even to say that every job needs the same number of actions or traits, let alone that every job must leave every source-class action unchanged.

[DestinovaTrueblade]

And, so? They can change this system at any time. There's nothing even to say that every job needs the same number of actions or traits, let alone that every job must leave every source-class action unchanged.

HW jobs make that seem unlikely. But I guess only time will tell.

[Noelzzz]

Yesterday, in Chinese live letter, the producer yoshi-p said that soon they will announce job system adjustment. I guess will find out who is right and who is not

[Erim-Nelhah]

I like the idea, but I think it would be more likely that if SE introduced the "ranger" class, Wanderer's Minuet would probably be renamed and given to it (and taken away from Bard), and the Bard's abilities reworked around that. Bard DPS would then be set to be about the same as a ranger who's not using WM, but bard would have the buff songs. Ranger would then be able to turn on their WM and outdps the Bard, and Bard would have more utility.

Tl;DR: Wanderer's Minuet is here to stay, and I don't think that any ranged class/job will be allowed to do the same dps on the move as other jobs do when not moving ever again, because of balance issues (SE thinks that being forced to move as a ranged DPS should lower your DPS, no exceptions).

--Erim Nelhah

[liljramos88]

square could just give it a pet and give it some nature based spells for support. so it would be like a druid or something.

[Duelle]

I got bored one evening and decided to do this for fun. this is keeping in line with a comment I made earlier in the thread about the possibility of splitting classes into two jobs where possible by having job crystals modify abilities of the parent class.

Archer

Summary of changes
- Bow weapon damage un-nerfed (it'd go back to scaling as it did when ARR launched).
- Quick Nock nerfed from 110 potency to 100 potency.
- Swiftsong changed to Dash.
- Piercing Fang replacing Wide Volley as the lv50 ability.

Abilities
01 Heavy Shot - Delivers an attack with a potency of 150.
02 Straight Shot - Delivers an attack with a potency of 140. Additional Effect: Increases critical hit rate by 10% for 20s.
04 Raging Strikes - Increases damage dealt by 20% for 20s.
06 Venomous Bite - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Additional Effect: Venom with potency of 35 for 9s.
08 Misery's End - Delivers an attack with a potency of 190. Can only be executed when target's HP is below 20%.
10 Shadowbind - Binds target for 10s. Cancels auto-attack upon execution. Target becomes unbound if damage is taken.
12 Bloodletter - Delivers an attack with a potency of 150.
15 Repelling Shot - Delivers an attack with a potency of 80. Additional Effect: 10y backstep. Cannot be executed while bound.
18 Quick Nock - Delivers an attack with potency of 100 to all enemies in a cone in front of you.
22 Dash - Increases movement speed by 10%. Effect ends upon reuse or when enmity is generated. Cannot be used in battle.
26 Hawk's Eye - Increases Dexterity by 15% and guarantees that all attacks land for 20s.
30 Windbite - Deals wind damage with a potency of 60. Additional Effect: Wind damage over time with potency of 45 for 18s.
34 Quelling Strikes - Reduces enmity generated by each attack for 15s.
38 Barrage - Multiplies the number of non-critical strikes for a single-target weaponskill by 2. Additional effects added only once. 10s duration.
42 Blunt Arrow - Delivers an attack with a potency of 50. Additional Effect: Silence for 1s.
46 Flaming Arrow - Sets the ground ablaze, delivering damage with a potency of 35 to enemies that enter the flames for 30s.
50 Piercing Fang - Reduces target's resistance to piercing damage by 10%. Duration: 20s. Cooldown: 45s. Does not stack with similar effects.

Traits
08 Heavier Shot - Adds to Heavy Shot 20% chance that your next Straight Shot will deal critical damage.
14 Enhanced Dexterity
16 Enhanced Dexterity II
20 Increased Action Damage - Increases base action damage by 10%.
24 Enhanced Venomous Bite - Extends Venomous Bite duration to 18 seconds.
28 Enhanced Raging Strike - Shortens Raging Strike cooldown to 120 seconds.
32 Enhanced Dexterity III
36 Enhanced Quick Knock - Extends Quick Knock range to 12 yards.
40 Increased Action Damage II - Increases base action damage by 20%.
44 Enhanced Barrage - Increases number of non-critical strikes per single-target weaponskill to three.
48 River of Blood - Grants a 50% chance that damage over time inflicted by Venomous Bite or Windbite will reset the Bloodletter recast timer.

BRD Crystal effects:

Changed abilities:
01 Heavy Shot - Delivers an attack with a potency of 150. Cast time: 2.5s.
02 Straight Shot - Delivers an attack with a potency of 140. Additional Effect: Increases critical hit rate by 10% for 20s. Cast time: 3s.
18 Wide Volley - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 to target and enemies near it. Cast time: 3s.
22 Chocobo Mazurka - Increases movement speed of all nearby party members as long as they remain within hearing distance. Effect ends upon reuse or when enmity is generated. Cannot be used in battle or with other songs.
30 Wind Threnody - Deals wind damage over time with potency of 55 for 18s. Cast time: 2.5s.

Changed traits
08 Inspiration - Adds to Heavy Shot 25% chance that your next Straight Shot or Wide Volley will be instant.
36 Enhanced Wide Volley - Increases the potency of Wide Volley to 110.
48 Lasting Resonance - Grants a 50% chance that damage over time inflicted by Venomous Bite or Wind Threnody will increase the damage of the next shot by 30%. This effect cannot happen more than once every 5 seconds.

Quested Abilities
30 Mage's Ballad - Refreshes MP of all nearby party members while lowering own damage dealt by 15%. MP is drained while singing. Refresh effect is lost if party members move out of hearing distance, and ends upon reuse. Cannot be used with other songs.
35 Foe Requiem - Reduces the magic resistance of all enemies by 10%. MP is drained while singing. Effect is lost if targets move out of hearing distance, and ends upon reuse. Cannot be used with other songs.
40 Army's Paeon - Refreshes TP of all nearby party members while lowering own damage dealt by 15%. MP is drained while singing. Refresh effect is lost if party members move out of hearing distance, and ends upon reuse. Cannot be used with other songs.
45 Rain of Death - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 to the target and all enemies near it. Additional Effect: Lowers target's evasion by 10% for 20s. Shares a recast timer with Bloodletter.
50 Battle Voice - Increases the effectiveness of all songs for 30s. Does not work with Chocobo Mazurka.
52 The Destroyer's Elegy - Reduces target's resistance to damage by 1%. Direct attacks received by target increase this amount by 1%, capping at 10% (15% under Battle Voice). Can be used with other songs. Duration: 12s. Cooldown: 60s.
54 Empyreal Arrow - Delivers an attack with a potency of 220. This skill has a cast time but is off the global cooldown.
56 Iron Jaws - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Additional Effect: If the target is suffering from Venomous Bite or Wind Threnody inflicted by you, the effect timer of each of those skills is reset.
58 The Scholar's Cadenza - Causes the next Wind Threnody to deal its full damage at once instead of over time or allows the activation of one song as a 15s buff. Can be used while a different song is active. Buff duration: 10s. Cooldown: 60s.
60 The Wanderer's Minuet - Allows movement while using skills with casting times. Cannot be used with other songs. Effect ends upon reuse.

Notes
- Something not mentioned in the write up but is part of the concept is that BRDs would exclusively get longbows. Longbows by design would have slower weapon speeds but higher weapon damage and 25-30y range.
- Changing River of Blood into Lasting Resonance is the first step towards dealing with the issues current WM has with BRD gameplay. The internal cooldown would further help by removing the frustration of getting a proc mid-cast.
- While I didn't implement it here, I have a mind to buff Heavy Shot and Straight Shot's base potencies, but the higher weapon damage from longbows may make this unnecessary.
- Wide Volley replacing Quick Nock via the BRD crystal would deal with the issue of having two abilities that do the same thing. The (traited) higher potency would be justified by it having a cast time.
- This version of Wanderer's Minuet would be the opposite of how it is currently implemented (allowing movement instead of restrict it). I'm thinking of having it either reduce damage or increase cast times by 10% to try to balance it out.
- Elegy is designed to be most beneficial in a group, as you'd quickly hit the 10% cap. The 12s uptime is designed to take that into account. I was thinking of adding a "decreases damage dealt" effect to it but I felt that would have made it too strong.
- Cadenza is there for burst damage or to activate a second support song if needed. You'd click on Cadenza and get the buff, and upon clicking on Threnody or on a support song you'd consume the buff.

RNG Crystal effects

Quested Abilities
30 Tar Trap - Arms a trap in target location that, when triggered by an enemy, creates a designated area that afflicts enemies that enter with Slow and Heavy. Duration: 20s. Cooldown: 30s.
35 Impacting Shot - Delivers an attack with a potency of 50. Additional effect: Stun for 3s. Cooldown: 45s.
40 Rapid Draw - Decreases the cooldown of all abilities by 1s. Effect ends upon reuse.
45 Paralytic Trap - Arms a trap in target location that, when triggered by an enemy, prevents that enemy from acting or moving. Effect breaks upon taking damage. Duration: 30s. Cooldown: 30s.
50 Eagle Eye Shot - Delivers an attack with a potency of 300. Cooldown: 60s.
52 Aetherial Quiver - Decreases damage dealt by 25%. Causes most attacks to consume MP instead of TP, and certain attacks generate TP when executed. Effect ends upon reuse.
54 Explosive Arrow - Delivers an attack with a potency of 110 to target and nearby enemies. Enemies affected by this ability that are also standing in a Tar Trap will explode, receiving additional fire damage with a potency of 100.
56 Dual Bite - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Applies Venomous Bite and Windbite on target. Triggers the cooldown of Venomous Bite and Windbite. Cooldown: 15s.
58 Multishot - The next single-target shot will affect target and enemies near it. Duration: 10s. Cooldown: 60s.
60 Sidewinder - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Additional effect: If the target is suffering from a Venomous Bite or Windbite effect inflicted by you, Sidewinder's potency is increased to 175 for one effect, or 250 for both.

Notes
- RNG is built around mobility and instant attacks, growing off from ARC as originally implemented.
- Something not mentioned in the write-up that is part of this concept is that RNG would exclusively get shortbows. By design, shortbows have faster weapon speeds but less weapon damage, as well as 15-20y range (RNG would have to stand closer to the mob than a caster or a BRD).
- Multishot is a bit iffy, since I'm sure someone would find the ability to AoE Venomous Bite/Windbite/Dual Bite overpowered, even despite the 60s cooldown.
- The point of Rapid Draw is to deal non-stop DPS but bottoming you out on TP very quickly.
- Aetherial Quiver is supposed to act as a sort of TP recovery stance. TP refund could be removed if natural TP regen ends up being enough.
- Some tweaks may be needed to the potencies, though I guess the best way to look at this is that RNG would be closer to BLM or NIN while BRD would be close to where it currently stands on the DPS meters.

[Noelzzz]

....[/HB]

Wow thats a pretty good idea! i am curious now to see how would you change the rogue for thief ninja

[Nibb]

Won't ever happen, they already gave BRD sidewinder, which is a staple ranger ability.

[rachcouture]

I would greatly appreciate a SMN/SCH-like split. Ranger could focus on DPS and Bard on songs and other support tools as opposed to the underwhelming mish-mash we have now.

That combined with recast and animation tweaks to make Wanderer's Minuet flow properly would have me interested in equipping a bow again.