Tanks, please use strength gear.. :(

[Freyyy]

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^ this, it's a better way to explain it

[Yorumi]

1) Aggro control and mob positioning/placement.
2) Mitigating damage, dodging stuff, not dying.
3) DPS.

While this isn't wrong I think it's a bit misleading. In most games, 1 and 2 tend to take a lot more effort than they do here. So it leads tanks to feeling like they're just a dps. For example in this game on a single target dps really can't generate the amount of hate a tank can, it's not really even close. Contrast to something like WoW or swtor where dps are actually capable of challenging a tanks hate level. Sure a good tank won't lose it in those games, but the dps are capable of riding right on the edge. So tanks need to put far more thought into proper aggro management. Likewise they have a lot more active mitigation from buffs, debuffs, stacks, triggers etc that arn't present in the game game. And fights tend to be balanced more around incoming dps than scripted tank busters. That tends to make mitigation in this game be "press button when tank buster incoming."

In short, it's a lot easier to trivialize 1 and 2 in this game than other games leading tanks to not really feel like tanks.

[Freyyy]

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That's why we talk about the "tanking meta of this specific game"

[Yorumi]

That's why we talk about the "tanking meta of this specific game"

Well of course, but the specific problem is that tanks in this specific game don't feel like tanks they feel like dps. That's why I said it's a bit misleading to suggest the focus of a tank on dps is 3rd. Tanking in this game is more like 90% focus on dps, 5% focus on aggro, and 5% focus on mitigation. In this game, outside of savage, if a tank focused entirely on dps and totally ignored mitigation(and the only reason it needs to be considered at all in savage is that you need cooldowns to survive the busters) he would be considered a better tank by this community than one who focused on mitigation and let dps suffer.

You can imagine it makes tanks a tad but upset when they're told they're bad for focusing on tanking.

[Freyyy]

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I agree that tanking in this game is a lot of DPS but what TouchandFeel meant is that the first things you wanna do as a tank is make sure you have agro and make sure you're surviving hits. If you don't do that don't even think about DPSing as a tank. Yeah, having agro and surviving is easy in this game and doesn't take a lot of effort but it's still the first thing you should prioritize. And when some bad try-hard-to-dps-tanks are focusing entirely on DPS and totally ignoring mitigation generally, even if it's in an expert dungeon, they take buttloads of damage and I'm pretty confident that they would never be considered a better tank by the community.
The best tanks are those who are capable of achieving high DPS while performing its primary tank job perfectly at the same time, but if I see a tank who is not capable of doing that, I much prefer seeing him actually survive the fight by playing it safe than dying while trying to DPS, thus slowing everyone down even more than if he played it safe. And I'm part of the community who promotes tanks wearing STR and DPSing.

[Yorumi]

And when some bad try-hard-to-dps-tanks are focusing entirely on DPS and totally ignoring mitigation generally, even if it's in an expert dungeon, they take buttloads of damage and I'm pretty confident that they would never be considered a better tank by the community.

Consider for a moment we're in a thread where the goal is to tell tanks to wear dps accessories, and there are people saying a tank should never be in tank stance. I'm not saying those people are wrong mind you. It just shows how fundamentally flawed the design is when the actual tanking stance, which fits 100% into what you would think a tank should be doing, is considered bad to use.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

But half my glams are already pink, i have pink limbal rings, purplish hair to go along with all the pink and my last name is senpai.

That's a pretty long post too, but i stopped reading after this, you sound mad and i don't wanna be opressed by your infinite wisdom. You sound very brilliant after such a remarkable comment.

She basicly said:

Your extra HP is useless to a healer, especially a newly geared one.

15k or 30k HP. Your going to die just as fast, one just gives you a few extra seconds to work with.

However, strength actually makes the fight shorter by giving you more damage. This making the fight not last as long and killing things faster.



Vitality is pretty much "Training Wheels", once you know how to ride your bike (tank good) take them off. All your doing is making the healer's job harder for no reason.

[TouchandFeel]

@Yorumi

I never said that the 1 and 2 from my list ended up being the greater percentage of focus for an experienced tank in this game, in fact I stated the opposite when I said that it becomes second nature and you don't really need to think about it.

The numbers were given as priority allocations for the responsibilities of a tank, for example if 1 is not being accomplished then a player should not be focusing on doing 3 as 1 is of higher importance.

I tanked in WoW (as well as many other MMO's from EQ1 on) and found it to be easier than in FF14. Agro control was so easy it felt virtually automated.

The main difference that I will agree with you on is that in WoW, tanking did feel more "defensive" where FF14 feels more "offensive". Neither is necessarily better, they are just different and being more offensive as a tank can lead to some players feeling sort of like a dps. This is not inherently a flaw as it can make a role that can easily feel less fun due to being more reactionary be more enjoyable to more players since they can play more aggressively and therefore feel more proactive.

Personally, this dichotomy of playstyle is something that I would love to see explored and expanded upon in this game whereas some tanks feel more defensive (ex: a chunk of PLD damage coming from defensive abilities or defensive abilities / procs leading into/enabling offensive abilities), while others are more offensive where their defenses come from using attacks (ex: the way WAR are).

As for the thread topic, you can see that many tanks disagree with the OP's opinion (as is often times the case with this particular poster and their threads on these forums, they sort of have a reputation).

[Kerwin]

She basicly said:

Your extra HP is useless to a healer, especially a newly geared one.

15k or 30k HP. Your going to die just as fast, one just gives you a few extra seconds to work with.

However, strength actually makes the fight shorter by giving you more damage. This making the fight not last as long and killing things faster.



Vitality is pretty much "Training Wheels", once you know how to ride your bike (tank good) take them off. All your doing is making the healer's job harder for no reason.

Lol this guy. Instead of training wheels you add a third wheel for STR tanks. You still look awful on it. Anything a STR tank can do a VIT tank can do equally the same.

[Sapphidia]

My main objection to the OP's point isnt the point itself, it's his totally incorrect reasoning. Strength on tanks doesnt make the healer's job easier. No healer should be running out of mana on 4 man stuff even on huge pulls. The risk to a tank is the total incoming damage. If making a fight a couple of seconds shorter is making it "easier" for the healer then that healer needs to go and learn how to manage mana.

Vitality is what makes things easier for a healer as it gives them much longer time to react to spike damage, lets them DPS a bit more as they dont have to pop out of cleric stance as frequently, and generally is safer. That said, I advocate Strength as the main focus for 4mans once you're not undergeared, of course I do. But it's simply to make the instance go a little faster for -convenience- not -ease-, or possibly to keep up with some of the threat of the really overgeared DPSers.

The only time Strength is -needed- in preference to Vit for the binary state of "did we beat this encounter" is on Alex Savage style fights with super high DPS requirements. Yes, strength is better on other encounters too, but it's not a make or break situation. Tanks just run Strength on encounters they overgear to make them faster and less boring, but sometimes you meet healers who are super new, undergeared, laggy, or just plain -bad-, and in those situations 2-3 seconds of not needing a heal due to a higher health pool CAN actually make or break an encounter.

Strength is good. But -sometimes- Vit is worth it. OPs blanket statement of tanks ALWAYS using full strength is flat out incorrect and a danger to new tanks who might try and take that advice out of context.