Tanks, please use strength gear.. :(

[Kerano]

So basically, we're DPS who just happen to have taunts.

Kinda like how it seems healers are just DPS with heals. Obviously Healers nowdays seem to think their dpsing is more important then keeping people alive, because everyone has to have gear so they can survive on their own. The mentality in this game is so shrewd.

[Odett]

Kinda like how it seems healers are just DPS with heals. Obviously Healers nowdays seem to think their dpsing is more important then keeping people alive, because everyone has to have gear so they can survive on their own. The mentality in this game is so shrewd.

I'm sorry, would you like healers to just stand there and do nothing when there is nothing to heal? If your tanking is making a healer constantly babysit you, then the problem is you.

[Kerano]

I'm sorry, would you like healers to just stand there and do nothing when there is nothing to heal? If your tanking is making a healer constantly babysit you, then the problem is you.

I'M SORRY i always assumed that the healers role was healing first. It's your job to "babysit" the PARTY, if they don't need heals sure go ahead dps, but if every healers mentality is "You better gear up so good i don't have to play my role" It just sounds like most healers play healers so they can get in queues fast and still do the dps role. I'm more then happy if the healer can get time to dps.

[Sapphidia]

I'M SORRY i always assumed that the healers role was healing first. It's your job to "babysit" the PARTY, if they don't need heals sure go ahead dps, but if every healers mentality is "You better gear up so good i don't have to play my role"

This is actually worth quoting because it highlights half the point of the back and forth in this thread. It's just as much the tank's job to babysit the party too. If they dont need extra tanking stats to be able to survive, they should go ahead and dps.

The only reason this thread exists is because the mechanics of the game allow for tanks AND healers to gear themselves for damage rather than their primary role, because their primary role isnt so difficult that they're at risk of everything dying if they don't focus 100% on them. The issue is that the squishier a tank is, the less a healer can add DPS to the party, and the more a tank has to gear up to allow a healer to DPS, the less DPS the tank adds.

It's give and take, and varies from dungeon to dungeon. What we DON'T need is each side standing flinging mud at the other side saying "well I do more DPS than you so you should accomodate ME".

[Viralblack]

I'M SORRY i always assumed that the healers role was healing first. It's your job to "babysit" the PARTY

The fact that you just referred to healers as babysitters pretty much shows you have zero symbiosis with your healing partners. My job isnt to carry your desire to dps while aoe tanking more than you can handle, but generally it becomes that. Melee doesnt want to move, so they dont to get more dps. Tanks dont want to wear tank gear, so they wear STR and tax my globals. Black mages dont want to navigate away from their circle, so they take the extra hit and save their dps.

You should try being an all glorious and lazy healer sometime, its amazing just how much bullshit you have to carry because people cant work together.

[spelley]

*snip*

Strawman is strawman. There is such a thing as a healer DPSing too much that doesn't result in "babysitting." Healers can tunnel vision when DPSing, or will sometimes end up doing the "I'll just finish this cast, swap out of Cleric's and heal" far too late. This is why I (sometimes) prefer tanks with a bit of extra VIT. Top them up, shield them, then have plenty of time to DPS myself before swapping back.

A VIT tank and a STR tank do take the same amount of damage as quickly, but the ebb and flow is more comfortable for me. If the tank is rotating cooldowns, have good gear and is using their self-healing/mitigation well, then they don't need as much VIT. A tank doing all of the above will "feel" the same as a higher VIT tank, but it will depend on the skill/gear level of the tanks and healers involved.

[Dante_V]

If you are in savage you need to be able to play your role AND your job to its maximum ability and teams will absolutely require you to pull dps as a tank or healer (respective to the mechanics) if you are doing this content. In the case of the current raid this absolutely requires maximizing dps. If you are a drk or a war and only putting out 500 dps as an off tank you are a detriment to your team. When you have a duty that requires a total dps number that is higher than what just the dps can do then all resources need to be utilized in order to clear the content. Otherwise you will be standing at the entrance looking at Faust. As ilvls increase this will die down a bit and allow for a more casual approach but as it sits now you need to put out everything possible to clear. That extra 2k Heath from going straight vit vs Str/vit will not save you from enrage.

[HoodRat]

So basically, we're DPS who just happen to have taunts.

yes? that's the mentality I should play with?

No, I haven't done any Savage anything, I'm still leveling.

after reading a couple of different threads like this, I decided to go ahead and switch all my points to STR, and swap all my accessories to STR ones, and just get used to tanking with minimum amounts of health now while I am leveling, so that when I get to max-level content, I won't have to hear anybody whining about it.

You don't have to dps, you could stand there and do absolutely nothing when you don't need to work on gaining enmity or mitigating anything. Just don't get upset when you start getting kicked out of every group.

[TouchandFeel]

@Yorumi

I never said that the 1 and 2 from my list ended up being the greater percentage of focus for an experienced tank in this game, in fact I stated the opposite when I said that it becomes second nature and you don't really need to think about it.

The numbers were given as priority allocations for the responsibilities of a tank, for example if 1 is not being accomplished then a player should not be focusing on doing 3 as 1 is of higher importance.

I tanked in WoW (as well as many other MMO's from EQ1 on) and found it to be easier than in FF14. Agro control was so easy it felt virtually automated.

The main difference that I will agree with you on is that in WoW, tanking did feel more "defensive" where FF14 feels more "offensive". Neither is necessarily better, they are just different and being more offensive as a tank can lead to some players feeling sort of like a dps. This is not inherently a flaw as it can make a role that can easily feel less fun due to being more reactionary be more enjoyable to more players since they can play more aggressively and therefore feel more proactive.

Personally, this dichotomy of playstyle is something that I would love to see explored and expanded upon in this game whereas some tanks feel more defensive (ex: a chunk of PLD damage coming from defensive abilities or defensive abilities / procs leading into/enabling offensive abilities), while others are more offensive where their defenses come from using attacks (ex: the way WAR are).

As for the thread topic, you can see that many tanks disagree with the OP's opinion (as is often times the case with this particular poster and their threads on these forums, they sort of have a reputation).

[Yorumi]

@Yorumi

I never said that the 1 and 2 from my list ended up being the greater percentage of focus for an experienced tank in this game, in fact I stated the opposite when I said that it becomes second nature and you don't really need to think about it.
...
I tanked in WoW (as well as many other MMO's from EQ1 on) and found it to be easier than in FF14. Agro control was so easy it felt virtually automated.

I know you wern't trying to imply they were necessarily the major focus of the class. Really though automated describes agro management in ff14 perfectly. I've just never seen a case where a tank has a proper weapon and a dps was realistically able to threaten a tank's aggro. To me aggro is so automated in this game that it's a little like saying a mnk needs to focus on second wind. Sure a tank needs to maintain aggro but it's so automated that they have to be almost trying to avoid aggro to not hold it.

As far as the comparison to tanks in other games, defensive vs offensive isn't really all of it. The design of hte classes in general is such that here maximizing a tank is mostly brain dead. I mean max dps on pld is just GB > 2x RA. If you need the str down then it's just a rotation through all 3 combos. Combine with the very slow 2.5 sec GCD and you have very low APM classes. Contrast to a tank that needs to maintain tight defensive buffs that don't have a trivial combo to gain the buff, or has buffs randomly falling off(absorb damage, or stacks being consumed). These buffs/debuffs contribute to a tanks survivability and fight mechanics now are major consideration and makes a tank think more about tanking. I'm not saying these other games are super impossible hard, but by comparison ff14 is brain dead.