Specialist Recipees: Why do the developers keep listening to bad requests?

[RiceisNice]

...

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that these people would only level up one classes. Hell, you still need a good chunk of them at level 50 anyway for the cross classing skills. I'm arguing on the end of a single player getting access to all recipes, not so much in the efficency of how they can craft with specialist.

Gearing up in 2.0, especially at the late game, did not take work, you're grossly overexaggering the amount of effort needed to gear up an omnicrafter. it's called Artisan Gear. You were effectively doing the work of one gearing up one job to gear up for all 8. It was easier to gear and omnicrafting at that point was so easily accessible that it made crafting in general moot.

Hell, this is the case now. You can effectively omnicraft as of right now in fully melded white pieces, there's absolutely no reason to get the AF pieces other than for glamour and to prepare for future recipe implementations.

[Pooky_Pasha]

I'm the side that's actually bending, by saying that a specialist should be as good as an omnicrafter.

You are so merciful and generous. I, personally, cannot wait for specialists' recipes. Specializations should have been in from the very beginning, along with unique recipes for each one. You are not being locked out of any "content", you are just being a drama llama.

[Snugglebutt]

No, I'm giving a realistic assessment. If the recipe is unavailable, it's content I can't do.

It is not 'that you can't do', it's that you 'don't want to do'...there is a BIG difference between those two things.

Someone else mentioned desynth as a very good comparison to the limitations of specialists in that both are limited to capping or specializing in three classes on a single character but like with desynth you have the option of having all capped or all recipes from specializations via alts. I'm betting you didn't kick up this much of a storm when desynth was implemented yet the same rule applies except only with specialists you can change your specialization if wanted.

If SE do this right and do include unique specialist recipes like some of us want then as long as for the most part they limit most of those recipes (doesn't have to be all) to non-material/component items and instead stick to perhaps mostly housing items, equipment, vanity items etc for them then it will be the best outcome for the community and the game long term despite some omni-crafters objections in my opinion. Ideally specializations should of been in the game from the beginning but better late than never as far as I am concerned.

You are free to disagree though, which I am sure you will.

[Joronas]

You're saying that omnicrafting was trivial ... if that's the case, then why did people think that it was too big a block? You're reaching. Especially since you're using "omnicrafting" and "crafting" interchangeably.

The idea expressed (repeatedly!) about specialist was that they should make it so you don't feel the need to grind 50/60 in all classes. Fine. I SUPPORT THAT. Blocking people from getting full benefit from leveling additional classes is wrong. Bad design. It's denying things to people who have done the effort. It needs to be removed from consideration with extreme prejudice. You DON'T deny content to people who are willing to make the effort. And that's all specialist recipes do -- deny content to anyone with more then 3 crafting classes. People who support that are, likewise, wrong.

[Nalien]

I'm very confused regarding the concept that Specialists should be as good as omnicrafters... Do people just not know what what it means to be a Specialist?

"A Specialist should not be better" does nothing but display a gross lack of understanding for what the word even means... News flash though, if you want to Specialize in everything, nothing is stopping you. This isn't real life, where you can go to medical school become a general practitioner, or specialize in cancer treatment, or bowel disorders, or pediatrics, or whatever. This is a video game. You can make one character who specializes in Weaving, Leatherworking, and Goldsmithing, and you can make another which specializes in Armory, Blacksmithing and Carpentry.

[Joronas]

Snugglebutt, desynth was likewise stupid. But it was also minor and WASN'T seen coming. This we can see coming, so stopping it is a priority.

Your idea for the best outcome is delusional at best. The best outcome is a vibrant and robust community that everyone feels welcome in, and contributes to. Your ideas go the exact opposite direction of that. It strips things from some of us in favor of people who didn't want to do the work for everything. Some of us want to welcome you to a community that lets everyone contribute. You just want to take away our ability to do things we enjoy so you can feel better about not having done the same work.

[Joronas]

I'm very confused regarding the concept that Specialists should be as good as omnicrafters... Do people just not know what what it means to be a Specialist?

"A Specialist should not be better" does nothing but display a gross lack of understanding for what the word even means... News flash though, if you want to Specialize in everything, nothing is stopping you. This isn't real life, where you can go to medical school become a general practitioner, or specialize in cancer treatment, or bowel disorders, or pediatrics, or whatever.

I'm a generalist programmer? I can do everything, and am harder to replace then the specialists. I watched people try. They might be able to do some tasks easier or faster; but I can do them as well. This is a game that's designed around the idea of you can do it all on one character. Forcing alts just to make a few people feel "special" about a pretty tag that took no effort at all ....

[Snugglebutt]

It strips things from some of us in favor of people who didn't want to do the work for everything.

It strips you of nothing, you cannot be stripped of something you never had aka recipes that have not yet been added and also not stripped of them even when are added as you 'can' obtain them if wanted just like to gain access to all desynth items from all classes you had to put in extra effort through creation of alts. You also keep going on about effort yet flat out refuse to put in the effort to obtain all the specialist recipes via those same alts, the problem is with you not willing to put in the effort to obtain everything you want despite it being possible for you to obtain them all if wanted it bad enough.

I'm a generalist programmer? I can do everything, and am harder to replace then the specialists. I watched people try. They might be able to do some tasks easier or faster; but I can do them as well.

You might think you can but you cannot, much like just because might have studied science in pre-school doesn't mean you can do quantum psychics. Just because you can draw a picture doesn't mean you can produce a 2D CAD design for the construction of a building or layout of a town. Just because you study programming and can make a 2D sprite move across a screen in visual basic does not mean you can produce a 3D polygonal character move in C++. A specialist not only does things faster and easier, but they can also do what someone who is not a specialist cannot. If you think otherwise I am sorry but you are incorrect and you would be seriously misunderstanding the concept and reality of what being a specialist actually means.

[Joronas]

actually, I've made several arguments and clarifications. IF you actually need it, my position is:

1) Leveling a crafter and doing the books for that craft should give you the ability to craft anything for that class
2) Specialists, if you really think they're necessary (I do not), should be of equivalent crafting potential to having all classes maxed.

The only thing I've seen coming out of the opposing side of this debate is the idea that leveling 1 class (or 3 classes) should have a better reward then leveling 8. I can't accept that. The effort to see how that makes sense quite seriously hurts my mind. And I provided no counterpoint because it devolved into "just level alts". If you think THAT was worthy of a counterpoint . . . .

On the other hand, I've never seen anyone give a reason why putting the effort to unlock 8 mastery books per tier (I, II, III) shouldn't give full recipes.

[KleeneOnigiri]

This is a game that's designed around the idea of you can do it all on one character. Forcing alts just to make a few people feel "special" about a pretty tag that took no effort at all ....

But you CAN specialize in all with one character. You can always use red scripts in order so change your specialization. Your problem with that is, that it take a lot of time.
But that was always how MMOs worked, and that's how FFXIV always worked. You love to compare it to combat classes, and with combat classes it's the same. You can't get the best gear for everyclass in a short time, it's impossible. Because there is a weekly cap of Allagan Tomestones. But it IS possible to get every gear in some time. Same for crafters, there is a weekly cap of blue/red scripts. And with time you can be "everything", it's possible to do everything. Just not at once.

And THIS is actually what your problem is about. You wouldn't mind specializations, if there wouldn't be a red scripts lock, that forces you to wait. But that's how it works for MMOs, since they don't want you to play the whole game through in one week. They want you to progress slowly but steadily. And this is true for combat classes and now also for crafting and gathering classes.