Specialist Recipees: Why do the developers keep listening to bad requests?

[RiceisNice]

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You're extremely over exaggerating when you say it's crippling them. You get three specializations. Your ability to craft in general is not hindered, but if you think that losing the ability to craft every single item in the game is that detrimental, I'm sorry but that's an incredibly selfish perspective. If they had made it so instead specialized people get a significant boost in those respective areas, who would go to a non-specialist to get their things crafted anyway? Is it not the same effect? Or do you simply enjoy having the ability to look at your completed crafting list?

You're not even locked out of end game gear, it's always required gathering and the time gating is similar to that of the combat classes with DoW with their weekly lockouts and tomestones.

[Joronas]

No, I'm giving a realistic assessment. If the recipe is unavailable, it's content I can't do.

If, as SE said, specialists were there to make it so that new crafters can produce top-end material... then there's no problem with specialists. Giving them unique recipes, or otherwise making them BETTER then someone who's leveled everything, is the completely wrong way to go. It's favoring the people who don't, didn't, or have no interest in, working to level multiple classes over the people who actually do. What's next? Giving battle classes who use NO cross class skills advantages so that they're better then those who do?

Specialists should NOT be better then omni-crafters, nor did SE ever SAY they would be better. All they said was they wanted to not force people into omni crafting.

[Dante_V]

They need to give specialists real abilities (not rng bs) that provide an advantage to crafting. They do not need to give specialists unique recipes that will automatically exclude 5/8 of crafters. This is just lazy design.

To put this in perspective, if SE applied this same design principle to other aspects of the game, they would be releasing dungeons where only specific jobs may enter and then have unique drops in that dungeon. I'm pretty sure that would not go over well.

This is completely disingenuous. Battle classes already have things that other classes cannot use, this is not the same as blocking content. By that metric the fact that a weaver can't make armor is blocking content to a lesser degree. This game absolutely needs forced specialization decisions. Being able to max everything is ridiculous and redundant.

[Fenral]

Aww, nobody Like!'d my link to the "No true Scotsman" fallacy (which really needs to be stickied on these forums). I'm greatly amused by some of the responses to this thread, but the sad fact remains that no matter how qualified your opinion as a crafter is, by disagreeing with the opponents of specialist recipes, you're invalidating your own opinion in their eyes by proving yourself to not be a "true" crafter. "True crafters" are a (completely imaginary) united front consisting of only of people who agree that specialist recipes are bad, and any other opinions simply don't exist.

[Joronas]

Nah. I acknowledge the opinions exist, I just know that they are wrong, and derived from utter laziness and unwillingness to commit to mastering crafting in order to excel.

snark off.

Is it really so hard to imagine that I don't want to be made objectively worse as someone who has gotten all crafting skills maxed? That my entire position is based off of not wanting to have 5/8ths of my ability taken away from me so that other people can skip the work I did, even in HW? I haven't objected at all to giving people a "specialist" tag that lets them match me in their 1-2-3 classes. I've even offered suggestions that would make specialists equivalent.

On the other hand, all I see from the recipes crowd is "down with omni crafters, my 1 class should be better then your 8!" I've only once seen one of them make any suggestion that wouldn't invalidate my time.

[KleeneOnigiri]

Giving them unique recipes, or otherwise making them BETTER then someone who's leveled everything, is the completely wrong way to go. It's favoring the people who don't, didn't, or have no interest in, working to level multiple classes over the people who actually do.

So on the one side, you say they favor the people that didn't invest time to get all classes leveled up. But on the other hand, you don't want to spend time to change your specializations (in case they get included and you "have to" change in order to "craft everything").

So basically, you just want to be on the status quo, be the best at crafting and not do anything for it anymore?

[RiceisNice]

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Specialists should NOT be better then omni-crafters, nor did SE ever SAY they would be better. All they said was they wanted to not force people into omni crafting.

There's such a disconnect between what SE says and what SE actually does lately, I'd take it with grains of salt. They'd say <Class> is fine, and end up changing it the next patch. They say they don't want to force people into omni crafting, but the state of crafting encourages you to omnicraft more than before because of the heavy dependence of crafter-originated materials. At this point we don't even know what was the intention with the specialist system, all we know now is that as of this time, it's a complete fluke that does neither to boost individual performance or set it aside from omni crafters.

[Joronas]

Are you one of those people who hasn't done any reading or thinking about this?

YOU CAN ONLY HAVE 3 SPECIALIZATIONS. EVER. It's NOT mastery IV. Mastery IV would be good! Mastery IV -- you put in the effort, you get the recipes.

You can burn over a week's worth of lockout turnins to change 1 of them. Once.

I don't know how to simplify it. Specialists and omnicrafters should be equal in the specialist's chosen class. THE SPECIALIST SHOULD NOT BE BETTER.

[RiceisNice]

Are you one of those people who hasn't done any reading or thinking about this?

YOU CAN ONLY HAVE 3 SPECIALIZATIONS. EVER. It's NOT mastery IV. Mastery IV would be good! Mastery IV -- you put in the effort, you get the recipes.

You can burn over a week's worth of lockout turnins to change 1 of them. Once.

I don't know how to simplify it. Specialists and omnicrafters should be equal in the specialist's chosen class. THE SPECIALIST SHOULD NOT BE BETTER.

I am reading. And I'm still disagreeing with what you want because that's an incredibly selfish perspective because you want access to everything. They might as well have not expanded on crafting at all and we have exactly the same system as it was in 2.0 and play the exact same crafting game for the next year until 4.0.

We have disagreements and that's fine, but you're the one that's objectively saying that the other perspective is wrong and should not be in effect because it's not what you want.

[Joronas]

No. Selfish is saying that leveling 1 class should be better then leveling 8.

I'm the side that's actually bending, by saying that a specialist should be as good as an omnicrafter. Really, it shouldn't. It flies in the face of "reward for effort". The side saying that specialists should be better is the side that's being selfish, demanding and unyielding.

So yes, it's wrong. You do the work to level and unlock everything, you get full benefit from it. You don't do the work? You shouldn't get the benefit. Specialists being able to match someone who has leveled 8 classes is a GIFT. Stop being selfish and demanding bigger toys then the people who have spent time doing more work for them.

And yes, 2.x was good. Reward was coupled nicely with effort. Specialists could have fit nicely in that system. Adding specialist recipes does not. They just make the system weaker and poorer.