It's Time To Wake up

[Fendred]

Logical Fallacy: Argumentum ad populum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

I would have to agree with Miscreant though. DPS do have less responsibility than the other roles since all they need to do is optimize damage and know mechanics. Now, I'm not saying either is easy (although it can be depending on perspective) but Tanks and Healers do have more responsbility than DPS do.

Tanks and healers have their abilities divided into two categories for group and solo play, respectively. This limits the complexity of both given those abilities need to share the same UI space. Damage dealers are only responsible for doing damage, so their entire UI bar is dedicated to that particular task, minus minor utility abilities. The combat system in FFXIV does not make use of resistances, so every ability that contributes to damage gets thrown into a massive rotation. Add a new ability and people expect you to use it to maximum effect. While they have only one thing to do, it is twice as involving in comparison to what the tanks and healers have to do in a group, which is purposely cut down to make room for solo oriented abilities.

The only real exception to this rule is the scholar, and that's because they have a pet to manage on top of having the same number of active abilities as the white mage. Also, I doubt you are here to exercise any intellectual muster for the well-being of others here, considering you are defending someone who chose to mock and belittle someone else who made no personal attack against them. Especially since constructive debate that uses such terminology is based on a healthy dose of self respect for both sides, which you have failed to garner by aligning yourself with a douchebag.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

You can argue that because their entire role is only 1 aspect (I.E. dealing damage) and tanks/healers have many aspects to deal with (Soloing, Party, Situational, Damage) that the complication of the multi-varied rotations makes it a bit more difficult for them to be optimal. Damage Dealers only need to know the optimal rotation for their job and that is pretty much it. The complication of Damage Dealers, of course, is how to use your long string of abilities to maximum effectiveness. Once you have it down, though, you know it and it doesn't really change by situation. Maybe once or twice but not too much. In my view, monk is the most complicated of the DDs due to the fact of juggling the Greased Lightning mechanic along with the optimal rotation.

I can see your point, though. In terms of rotation, you CAN argue they have less to do via pure rotation but more to do in terms of mechanics. Tanks have to be wary of when tank busters come in, where the mob is facing so the party don't get screwed as a result, position the mob optimally so DD's can be optimal. Healers have to be wary about debuffs, DDs not being able to dodge and thus expending more of their resource (MP) to save them, creating a whole new slew of problems.

Also, intellectual terminology can stand on its own. You don't have to respect me but you can't argue against it purely because of the morality of the peoeple who use it. And you don't know my morality so you're being prejudiced against me.

[Fendred]

@DreameR7g

You aren't here to argue for the intellectual well being of anyone. An argument where you fail to garner the respect of the other person can never be considered an intellectual argument. You defended a person who chose to belittle someone else. Also, referring to the fact that something has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere on the forum isn't an argument ad populum.

Also, no, you are wrong. If the person only has to use half or two thirds of his action bar for one thing and only half or two thirds for another, that is not as complicated as having to use the entire thing for every single encounter. The increase in complexity is not linearly associated with the number of buttons, as there are various ways abilities combo into other abilities or require the debuffs of other abilities to be maximized. A tank doesn't have to think two or three combo rotations down the road before using some high damage cooldown or finishing move. A ninja, on the other hand, does in some instances.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Respect has no bearing on it being intellectual. It does have a bearing on if its an argument or debate. I don't need your respect to be logically correct. Also, I have no problem with you being against someone who chose to belittle another. You simply used a flawed argument to make your case and I pointed that out.

Argument ad populum actually means you tried to leverage the popularity of a viewpoint as a means to say you're right. Simply because "many people of the forums" agreed with it. That's flawed on so many levels.

Edit: Correct. It isn't as complicated unless you harness the full thing, which raiders actually demand players do in order to become excellent at their job. Hence, Tanks/Healers do have it more complicated in the long run. And then you have to equate mechanics into the equation to get the full feel of their role.

[karateorangutang]

@DreameR7g

You aren't here to argue for the intellectual well being of anyone. An argument where you fail to garner the respect of the other person can never be considered an intellectual argument. You defended a person who chose to belittle someone else. Also, referring to the fact that something has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere on the forum isn't an argument ad populum.

Also, no, you are wrong. If the person only has to use half or two thirds of his action bar for one thing and only half or two thirds for another, that is not as complicated as having to use the entire thing for every single encounter. The increase in complexity is not linearly associated with the number of buttons, as there are various ways abilities combo into other abilities or require the debuffs of other abilities to be maximized. A tank doesn't have to think two or three combo rotations down the road before using some high damage cooldown or finishing move. A ninja, on the other hand, does in some instances.

Ummmm I'm pretty sure I use my entire kit on WAR, plan for tank busters, position mobs, plan out times to use DPS stances, and plan out times to pull off fell cleave combos. If you think tanks are just sitting there holding hate, either you don't play them, play one well, or don't play with tanks that play well. I literally can't think of something I don't use regularly on WAR.

I'm not saying DPS can't be difficult, but generalizing the roles by difficulty is silly. Some fights are really easy to tank, some fights are harder to tank. Same applies for all the roles.