It's Time To Wake up

[Kaurie]

Uh huh.. sure I am. You can defend yourself all you'd like. However, when you try to defend yourself with illogical arguments, you are no better than the person you are defending yourself from.

And I can jump into a forum thread because you are in a public domain. If you feel abused by my words, I apologize. It is not my intention. However, just because you *feel* abused by me doesn't mean I am abusing you.

Hey guys.. I swear you've taken up 2 pages debating about debating. Let's bring this thread back on topic. K?

I disagree that skill bloat is a problem. However, one method which I've seen to tackle skill bloat is a card-deck type system. This is seen in both Wildstar and Guild Wars 1. For more clarification, you have a large 'deck' of skills and you can select a limited number of them to use. That will keep your bar smaller, while also keeping a large amount of skills in the game. I strongly dislike WoW and Guild Wars 2's attempt at reducing the number of skills available, and I find that makes things much more boring.

However, I don't think that many people in the FFXIV community would like the deck system. If we don't go that way, my vote is to leave as is.

As for Skill Delay, the issue is that instant stuff is not really instant (at least that's my issue). Like Benediction, Lustrate and Hallowed Ground - they go off you get your long CD or loss of Aetherflow, but the tank still dies. Either don't have it go off, or don't have the tank die. It's stupid that the skill goes off, the animation hits covers the tank, yet the server needs to think for a second and thus the tank dies. This is just one example, but it's frustrating. For me, as a SMN, I find it annoying that Bio takes a second to apply after casting, so it's not a good idea to queue in Bane right after Bio II, Miasma and Bio or only Bio II/Miasma are spread.

[Quinlan]

I agree with the OP on skill bloat. Without macros I have over 40 buttons that are just my Job skills and essential stuff. That's after removing a bunch of convenience stuff to clear out bars. That is just ridiculous! I don't want just 2, 4, or 8 buttons, but damn man... 40?! Some people have way more than that with their macros and such.

I agree that the class system needs to be revamped. Go with full Jobs (wouldn't take much to update the quest text or don't even. You're called a Gladiator til you become a Paladin. Don't need cross class skills. The only "essential" one is Swiftcast for casters, build that into the jobs. Its clunky and confusing. You could get rid of tons of stuff just by removing that system.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I agree with the OP on skill bloat. Without macros I have over 40 buttons that are just my Job skills and essential stuff. That's after removing a bunch of convenience stuff to clear out bars. That is just ridiculous! I don't want just 2, 4, or 8 buttons, but damn man... 40?! Some people have way more than that with their macros and such.

I agree that the class system needs to be revamped. Go with full Jobs (wouldn't take much to update the quest text or don't even. You're called a Gladiator til you become a Paladin. Don't need cross class skills. The only "essential" one is Swiftcast for casters, build that into the jobs. Its clunky and confusing. You could get rid of tons of stuff just by removing that system.

How do you have over 40 o.o I main drg, and don't even use up a full 36, with all my cross class abilities.

[Riardon]

I can agree only with some of them. Skill delay is one of them but I can hardly say it's problem unless you have too high ping like many EU and AUS players have. Skill bloat? Not at all if you say this for FFXIV then you never saw how many skills other MMORPGs have. I can say only that there are few skills from some classes which are never used by anyone. Class description and class/job are a bit poor to me. Can't say they break the game though it's just a poor implementation which was right in the minds of devs when they created them but now they are obsolete and they need a revamp. Stats are ok with the exception of some of them which have low impact in practice. I also do not agree with the removal of armor it's just ridiculous.

[Altanas]

I want to touch on some issues regarding Skill Bloat:

1. Cross class abilities essentially add 5 extra mandatory skills for each job's hotbar. This also worsens the need for macro's and thus the inevitability of skill delay. It would be better if cross class actions were turned into passive traits upon being cross classed. To make things more groovy, why not allow those traits to be "junctioned" to specific skills so a mix of pairing materias in 7 or pure junctioning in 8.

2. Any essential cross class skills like protect should be considered more thoroughly as in -> just delete the spell from the game, its basically a trait anyway given its cast every 30mins... Spells like protect should be more system based. Cast automatically on you by the server upon initiating a FATE, Dungeon, or upon reviving.


3. With level cap increases, I appreciate 50-60 "finished off rotations", but in the future level caps should bring traits which enhance or alter existing abilities (this would help with avoiding maintaining hotbars just for 50 sync content and having another set at XX level)

4. "Combos" should rotate the ability on a key so precious real estate is saved from all these 123 combos

[Aeyis]

I want to touch on some issues regarding Skill Bloat:

1. Cross class abilities essentially add 5 extra mandatory skills for each job's hotbar. This also worsens the need for macro's and thus the inevitability of skill delay. It would be better if cross class actions were turned into passive traits upon being cross classed. To make things more groovy, why not allow those traits to be "junctioned" to specific skills so a mix of pairing materias in 7 or pure junctioning in 8.

2. Any essential cross class skills like protect should be considered more thoroughly as in -> just delete the spell from the game, its basically a trait anyway given its cast every 30mins... Spells like protect should be more system based. Cast automatically on you by the server upon initiating a FATE, Dungeon, or upon reviving.


3. With level cap increases, I appreciate 50-60 "finished off rotations", but in the future level caps should bring traits which enhance or alter existing abilities (this would help with avoiding maintaining hotbars just for 50 sync content and having another set at XX level)

4. "Combos" should rotate the ability on a key so precious real estate is saved from all these 123 combos

You have some mighty fine ideas.

[Miscreant]

Look under my character's tab. The other character is the one I played since release. This is just an alt I created due to the inventory system forcing me into playing a second character. Better than throwing out hours of grind work collecting vanity sets.

Fair point, I only looked at the name on the forums. I should apologize for getting frustrated, but when someone with no real end game experience tries to tell me that healers are an easy role it kind of grinds my gears. Healers have to learn the rotation of a fight down to the tee and to say that healers don't have a rotation is kind of off the mark, it's just our rotation can't be applied to fights as broadly as dps as it changes with every fight, but it's by no means easy, we're in charge of the parties well being, cover for their mistakes, help tanks with mitigation ad if you're good you still provide a substantial amount of dps and our dps isn't exactly simple, you still have to track multiple dots and weave OGCD's.

In my opinion you don't see the full potential of a role until you push it in progression as their is no real need for it until that moment. And posts like this topic frustrate me as well, when they say the game looks nice but there's nothing too it, the raids are actually complex, there's a reason why Savage hasn't been cleared yet and why many groups aren't even past AS1 and it's not just a dps check or "artificial difficulty" as people like to say.

Skill bloat isn't really a thing unless you are a Summoner, I used to play on controller and juggling multiple hotbars is part of the game, it's not hard once you practice it. The only things I actually agree with in this post are that skill delay and the need for an in game parser, and it was leaked that we are getting a personal parser next patch, and the location of the servers were a bad move by SE but that will be fixed soon too.

And the poster above that said that Protect should just be a trait, that's not right, when someone dies we have to reapply it, it's still just another part of the healers roll.

Also this

"Combos should rotate the ability on a key so precious real estate is saved from all these 123 combos"

Is kind of spoon feeding, it creates no room for error and removes any flexibility from those combos.

[Vickii]

The only point I really agree on is the cross-class skills.

I really have no interest in levelling a lancer and a pugilist. I only levelled bard for cross skills but kinda fell in love with it. I have my class. I don't want to have to be level 42 dragoon or whatever it requires just to get a skill which is important for my end-game play. I'd rather do 50 bard quests for it.

My biggest problem with the game is actually your only positive point though, how it looks. At level 50 wearing gear from the class quest and a weapon from the FC, there is no way at all that the bow string should run directly through my hat. Or that the white mages 'legs' don't show if you're wearing certain tops. Or that staves poke through my hair.

[Kaurie]

The only point I really agree on is the cross-class skills.

I really have no interest in levelling a lancer and a pugilist. I only levelled bard for cross skills but kinda fell in love with it. I have my class. I don't want to have to be level 42 dragoon or whatever it requires just to get a skill which is important for my end-game play. I'd rather do 50 bard quests for it.

Maybe they should add alternate methods for acquisition? Like you can cross class it if you have the class at the right level, or you can obtain it via specialized quests once at max level. In your example, a level 60 bard quest could unlock blood for blood if you don't already have it via Lancer.

[Darsho]

Not a permanent solution to accumulating skill bloat, but if the skills have the same basic effect as has been said (e.g. damage+) you can just macro them together and button mash it as soon as it's up. Several skills discussed such as Hawkseye/B4B or Rouse/Spur have CDs that line up almost perfectly so you can just roll them up into one hotkey for the same "consolidated" effect. It obviously cannot be a permanent solution if more skills are added down the line but it definitely does take the heat off of the keybind overload for me.