"Please Kick Me..." - Just Take Your Penalty

[Noira]

Thing is though how does one know a run is gonna go badly even if you haven't even done a pull ? I can see if you did a pull and you died on the first one and it wasn't even big (though fluke happens).

Some of these comments (not yours thunda). Make me think this community might be X-men.

[LunaHoshino]

Thing is though how does one know a run is gonna go badly even if you haven't even done a pull ?

Sometimes all it takes to know that something is going to be a disaster is one look at someone's gear. My FC once had a terrible Titan HM run with a PUG MNK who was using an i37 weapon. We barely, BARELY managed to squeak past the DPS check after multiple wipes thanks to our healers stance dancing.

[Syrehn]

Sometimes all it takes to know that something is going to be a disaster is one look at someone's gear. My FC once had a terrible Titan HM run with a PUG MNK who was using an i37 weapon. We barely, BARELY managed to squeak past the DPS check after multiple wipes thanks to our healers stance dancing.

Just looking at someone's gear isn't always true indicator of how well they will perform and, imo, doesn't warrant asking to be kicked before a pull has even been made. I've seen undergeared pugs perform amazingly well.

Also keep in mind that what might be undergeared by your standards might not actually be undergeared for the level/difficulty of the duty even if they (pugs) don't dps as well as you'd like.

[LunaHoshino]

Just looking at someone's gear isn't always true indicator of how well they will perform and, imo, doesn't warrant asking to be kicked before a pull has even been made. I've seen undergeared pugs perform amazingly well.

So have I, but nine times out of ten, if taking a look at someone's gear makes me go "oh geez," it's going to be a long and messy run. My friend once had a tank who held aggro like nobody's business in sunglasses and mostly spiritbonding gear, but things like that are (in my experience) the exception rather than the rule. Still, I personally would give something at least one try, though I can understand why other people might not want to.

Edited to add that I'm talking about seriously undergearing like the MNK in my example, not someone being in a mix of i90/i100 gear for hard roulette or something. Someone whose general gear is around the ilvl requirement for a dungeon is fine. Someone who is basically cheating the requirement by using gear meant for another class is not.

[Bhuni]

Just looking at someone's gear isn't always true indicator of how well they will perform and, imo, doesn't warrant asking to be kicked before a pull has even been made. I've seen undergeared pugs perform amazingly well.

Also keep in mind that what might be undergeared by your standards might not actually be undergeared for the level/difficulty of the duty even if they (pugs) don't dps as well as you'd like.

So you're telling me if I get a MNK in Titan HM with an ilevel 37 weapon for example everyone's just supposed to suck it up and be denied a kick if asked or take a 30 minutes lockout, because you've 'seen' some pugs perform amazingly well undergeared? That doesn't sound right.
I'll say those words again though "pugs perform amazingly well undergeared"

[RiceisNice]

So you're telling me if I get a MNK in Titan HM with an ilevel 37 weapon for example everyone's just supposed to suck it up and be denied a kick if asked or take a 30 minutes lockout, because you've 'seen' some pugs perform amazingly well undergeared? That doesn't sound right.
I'll say those words again though "pugs perform amazingly well undergeared"

If you're wiping due to dps checks in titan HM at this point of the game (espif it's your roulette), you have more problems at present than just the monk.

While I agree that one should not have super high expectations of DF, there are some groups that are FAR below average even for DF groups. For example, I recently did a DF Mog HM where the DPS would not stop pushing the king and causing wipes. We wiped about 5 times before I left. I would be surprised if anyone really thinks that is unreasonable; we're not even talking about bad players at that point, but ones who don't listen/won't follow simple instructions (yes it was explained to them beforehand).

That's where vote abandon kicks in. If the dps were a group of 4 who were purposely making it impossible to progress and they even admit to it, it's harassment and reportable. If they werent premade, you could just vote kick one of them since it's well within the line of "kicking for playstyle difference".

Penalty timers should never have been a thing. There are other ways of preventing people from fishing for in-progress duties or trying to cherry-pick dungeons. Players should never play a game when it's an unfun chore. Forcing players to play together when they don't want to will just increase the misery of the community. Also, individual players who are being mistreated by a group should have a better out than the prospect of a 30 min lockout from playing. I don't think it's fair to assume that every individual that wants to quit a team is in the wrong.

Get rid of one, and flood gates open for another. If we had no penalties, people would just keep on fishing and fishin for whatever dungeon they want through roulette. No leafers would ever get tam-tara done if people could bail out immediately without a penalty.

And again, it's not forcing you to stay in the party. Why do people feel so inclined that they're forced to stay, when they can straight up leave with a 30 minute timer?

A player that's being mistreated by a group/pre-made is unavoidable, but if they feel the need to have to harass the outlier or otherwise halt progression for malicious intent (such as trolling), it's reportable, especially if it's made clear.

I'm willing to bet there'd be a lot less need for votekick and a lot less bad behavior in general if people were allowed to leave situations in which they were unhappy without being punished for it.

And now we're left with a problem of getting certain duties completed for leafers or people who legitmately need it. Ones like Chysyallis, SoF and the lowbie trio.

[Bhuni]

If you're wiping due to dps checks in titan HM at this point of the game (espif it's your roulette), you have more problems at present than just the monk.

True indeed, but tolerating something such as that for example is one of the many reasons why NA/EU DF is hardly ever a pleasant experience, regardless of what you're running.
You carry someone through X and they'll expect an easy ride with Y, but the people in Y may not be able to make up for this persons lack of gear,skill etc like the folk in X did.

[RiceisNice]

True indeed, but tolerating something such as that for example is one of the many reasons why NA/EU DF is hardly ever a pleasant experience, regardless of what you're running.
You carry someone through X and they'll expect an easy ride with Y, but the people in Y may not be able to make up for this persons lack of gear,skill etc like the folk in X did.

That sounds more like DF not being your cup of tea in general.

I got Chrysalis twice and Steps once in trial roulette in the past week. There were no mysterious disconnects or people leaving or requesting kicks and we one-shot the fights every time. I think you're vastly overestimating the number of people who hate those fights enough to want to leave them rather than just do them and get them over with.

My reply was in the context of there was no penalty for leaving. It's precisely those 30 minute penalties why some people will (begrudgingly) stay in a trial roulette that's not to their liking.

[LunaHoshino]

And now we're left with a problem of getting certain duties completed for leafers or people who legitmately need it. Ones like Chysyallis, SoF and the lowbie trio.

I got Chrysalis twice and Steps once in trial roulette in the past week. There were no mysterious disconnects or people leaving or requesting kicks and we one-shot the fights every time. I think you're vastly overestimating the number of people who hate those fights enough to want to leave them rather than just do them and get them over with.

[Ashkendor]

Sometimes all it takes to know that something is going to be a disaster is one look at someone's gear. My FC once had a terrible Titan HM run with a PUG MNK who was using an i37 weapon. We barely, BARELY managed to squeak past the DPS check after multiple wipes thanks to our healers stance dancing.

One undergeared DPS hasn't been a problem in Titan for ages though, so that wasn't just him.

Hell, I've finished it with all four DPS off the platform even before Heavensward.