The one consistent critic on Heavensward is "too much like ARR"? srsly?

[Hyrist]

no, we don't want Limbus, we don't want Dynamis, we don't want Beseiged.

we want something that's not Expert Dungeon, 8 Man Trial, Hunts and FATEs. that's about it.

what do we want? doesn't matter as long as it's meaningful and fairly repeatable.

I'm all for expanding endgame. But we already have systems in place that would make due for that.

Sorry, but if there was a Hunt, that was on the level of a Raid, and dropped equivalent gear, I'd be all over that. That's both Hunt Marks and Treasure Hunts.

I'm all for expanding endgame in a meaningful way that provides and alternative-but-equivalent progression. However. We are a vertical progression MMO, and to achieve that goal we're going to have to produce something both sustainable, AND recognize that there's a limit to how WIDE a vertical progression MMO can be without physically killing our Devs.

Also, as a general gripe, comparing endgame on a horizontal endgame MMO ,like FFXI, to this one just loses all respect from me. As I said before, there are so many logical failings there that it just displays a complete lack of understanding in both game design and development to try to make parallels seriously.

[Ayanno]

I never did. But if you're going to make that kind of argument. Tell me you CAN'T draw Parallels from Sky to Sea. From Dynamis to Einherjar to Walk of Echoes. From Beseiged to Campaign.




When did you ever ride a mount in First Coil? Just asking.


You're the one making false comparisons here.

No, the problem is you're comparing a 13 year old game to a 2 year old one without considering the timeline for each.

Where the hell was Nyzule Isle in Rize of the Zilart. Was it there, No?

Then why are you expecting it in FFXIV's FIRST expansion?

You know what you did in RotZ? You did Sky. Maybe Dynamis in the later end of the Expansion on that. After that?.... *crickets* Rotate Dynamis runs maybe? How is that any different than rotating Coil or Alex runs. (Oh wait, you had to pay a million gil each time for an hourglass! There's the difference. Oh, and you had to wait in line for horrible droprates for 2 years)

No, you had to wait 4 years for your weekly schedule you just gave me, (if you played from JP release). We've not even hit the second anniversary of ARR. Try again.

...I expected a better rebuttal. Disappointing, but it is what it is. Let's get to it, shall we?

Parallels between battle content, in the same game? Well, no shit. The battle engine is the same from one fight to the next. Way to gloss over the point, however. How you completed Nyzul Isle was not the same as how you completed Dynamis. Nyzul you had to climb a 100 floor tower, saving your progress every 5 floors. It was also a 6 man raid. Dynamis was you and your alliance of 18-36(!?) people battling an entire nightmare version of one of the cities. If you can't see the how that is different I don't know what to say. Were the actual battles fought the same? Well, yeah, despite a vew new moves bosses/mobs did that you needed to counter.....the battle engine stayed the same. Again, no shit.

Did....did....no, really.....did you just ask me if I ever rode a vehicle in Coil? Is THAT the only difference besides name/look you can come up with? Seriously!? "Oh wow! Alex is totally new and different from Coil, because I can drive a go kart around one floor! The mechanic(battle engine!) has changed, the format remains the same. 4 turns, 4 floors. .....driving a vehicle.....Altana help me.....

I find it amusing that you ignored, or didn't even read the last part of my post. I acknowledged the fact XIV has not yet had the time to do achieve the variety of endgame content over the years that XI had. I also pointed out that Rise of the Zilart brought with it SKy, which is actually very different from Eco-Warrior and Expeditonary Force. You must've missed that entire section of my post, huh?

OH! And since you brought it up(thanks, btw) I did not play FFXI at Japanese release. I played it at NA release. Which means Zilart was already in the box, and Chains of Promathia was right around the corner. Now, Zilart came out pretty damn quickly in Japan, as in less then a year after launch, there was Zilart. Back then, no MMO company did patch cycles like today, so the first expansion came out pretty damned quick. Two years later(where have I seen "two years" in regards to FF MMO? Hmmm.) CoP came. Oh, and would you look at this? Sea is not "Sky 2.0", it was a different enough, VARIED enough, to not actually be the same thing.

Alexander and Coil is the same format, no variation. Tomestones is the same format, no variation. Can you imagine if every expansion from XI followed the same path to Kirin that Sky did, just different location/name of the boss? Because that's what your defending.

Also, this game is 5 years old, not 2. 1.0 does actually count for some folks, as was mentioned elsewhere.

....vehicles....cannot believe you attempted that. *snort* Just...wow.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

@Sendoh, Ayanno, Ladon and many other people in this thread. I just wanted to say THANK YOU. Thank you for giving me a bit of faith in this community knowing there's still reasonable people in these forums.

We'll just have to wait and see what Yoshi and team come up with.

PS. Are the forums awfully slow today? All the other websites load fine except this one.

[justinjarjar]

wow lots of whining on both ends, people don't like ff11 and ff14 is now and is liked by more than ff11 ever had. Ff14has had some of the best content patch release dates of an mmo in a while. I had the NA release it had xyz... good for you the coding started with the base game in jp not the na launch. Done with that. FF11 is not viable in the current market, already talked in depth about this, done with talking about. Ok what do we want? You say something else... ok great come up with something that works in the current model yoshi and the devs already looked at old mmos and took some of the best features for the current climate into the game. It still has FF charm and the story is pretty darn good. Content updates are very frequent, and they have some new concepts coming. Instead of exp lose and huge exp farm we have tomes and weekly caps.... still both are strats to keep people form getting "bored." If you are bored it does not mean the game is dieing and the world is going to end tomorrow. In no way does FF14 look like it is going to end tomorrow. You have a system lets work on that, we have system limits with ps3 and ps4 which in the end all brings a lot of players in (and yes many of those are casual and matter). So what can we add? What makes me unreasonable I am being practical? Coding takes time and money, nothing will happen fast and the bulk of time went to the story and new zones which most of you guys liked.

[Ayanno]

Also, as a general gripe, comparing endgame on a horizontal endgame MMO ,like FFXI, to this one just loses all respect from me. As I said before, there are so many logical failings there that it just displays a complete lack of understanding in both game design and development to try to make parallels seriously.

We posted replies at the same time, so I'll respond to this seperatly:

I am not comparing a vertical MMO to a horizontal one. No, don't click reply yet, just a sec. What I am comparing is the variety in the content provided. Just because this is a vertical MMO does not mean every raid has to follow the same format as the one before it. Just because this is a vertical MMO does not mean every Tomestone daily must follow the same 2-3 dungeon format as what came before.

You can have a vertical MMO and provide a variety in content. 3.0 didn't even try. They took everything, good and bad, that was in ARR, slapped a new coat of paint on it, and called it a day. That is the issue myself, and many others, have.

Also, Hyrist, please don't think I am attacking you personally, as that is not my intent. I am merely trying to have a discussion about the current state of the game. Nothing more.

[SendohJin]

I'm all for expanding endgame. But we already have systems in place that would make due for that.

Sorry, but if there was a Hunt, that was on the level of a Raid, and dropped equivalent gear, I'd be all over that. That's both Hunt Marks and Treasure Hunts.

Also, as a general gripe, comparing endgame on a horizontal endgame MMO ,like FFXI, to this one just loses all respect from me.

what the hell do you keep talking about "endgame" for. Treasure Maps aren't endgame, Beastmen Dailies aren't endgame. ENMs, Campaign, Beseiged aren't endgame. they're just other things to do that's different.

make an event out of Grade V Materia instead of spiritbond. it's as simple as that or the flying race thing i mentioned. let that be an alternative to getting Purified Coke or whatever those other insane red scrip craft mats are.

they didn't even need to put Accessories in Alex Normal, like there are no weapons. Alex Normal could've been armor only and i190 Accessories came from elsewhere.

[Intaki]

what do we want? doesn't matter as long as it's meaningful and fairly repeatable.

So you want SE to give you something, but you don't want to make any suggestions as to what.

Sounds reasonable.

Additional query: let us presume for a moment that SE withheld a significant portion of content additions from the 2.xx updates and kept them in reserve for the expansion. This means no Gold Saucer, no Hildibrand, no Rogue/Ninja until Heavensward. They could have deployed all those things as they did, but instead chose to hold on to them for the expansion.

Would you be more or less satisfied with that state of affairs? Do you want bigger, more extravagant expansions or more frequent and larger free content updates?

[SendohJin]

So you want SE to give you something, but you don't want to make any suggestions as to what.

Sounds reasonable.

Additional query: let us presume for a moment that SE withheld a significant portion of content additions from the 2.xx updates and kept them in reserve for the expansion. This means no Gold Saucer, no Hildibrand, no Rogue/Ninja until Heavensward. They could have deployed all those things as they did, but instead chose to hold on to them for the expansion.

Would you be more or less satisfied with that state of affairs? Do you want bigger, more extravagant expansions or more frequent and larger free content updates?

i gave a suggestion go read the post before that.

i never expected Hunts, would've been fine if that never showed up in the 2.0 era and was a 3.0 thing.

Rogue/Ninja is just another job. it's not a new feature, 3 jobs or 4, no big difference.

besides Mini-cackpot, i don't care about Gold Saucer either. they could've held Chocobo Racing out and integrated that with flying somehow.

[Ayanno]

@Intaki:

Instead of grinding the same 2-3 dungeons for 3 months that follow the same path to completetion as every other dungeon EVER, followed by new(in color/name only) tomestones with 2-3 new dungeons following the exact same path to completetion as every other dungeon EVER, how about this OPTION, not a replacement, an OPTION:

quest NPC gives a new daily quest each day, the tomestone reward is the same as the dungeon, but the objectives are different. Example:

Tuesday: Objective: Kill 3 A rank Hunt mobs In Ishgard zones.
Weds: Objective: Clear (insert random dungeon here).
Thursday: Objective: Complete (insert random trial here)
Friday: Objective: Clear all Clan Mark Bills(1,2 and 3)

The objective changes every day, the only RNG is what objective you get each day.

I don't have a creative bone in my body....yet I came up with *something* new to go along with the dungeon-for-tomes grind. An OPTION, to go WITH the current format, not to replace it.

Or, you know, VAREITY.

[justinjarjar]

@Intaki:

snip

There we go, and I like it that is what we where looking for, it could get people to redo old content and still within the system. (and no people not wow this would be just a second way to get some of the old content played again we could add CT and turns to dailies too fix the old raid problem)