Defilberating the Dead Horse

[Ibi]

Has the parsing been done to determine the new stat weights? That's one of the things I've been waiting to see ...

DRG stat weights, per this post, indicate ratios between 1:6 and 1:10. There will be variance from one job to another, obviously, but nothing like the 1:3 we were seeing in 2.x.

[scarebearz]

There is a difference between saying the system has it's flaws and the extreme over-dramatization you and others are using. The so called people you claim are defending it are actually not defending it in the way you imply as there is not a single one including myself who claims the system is either perfect of not in need of fixing. But what the more reasonable, rational and sensible people whom you claim are defending it are trying to do is separate the bullshit hyperbole and exaggerations from the actual facts. Hyperbole like there is no fun to be had, no money to be made, crafting is dead, no one is crafting, economy is destroyed, everyone agrees with you unless they are stupid or trolls, also my personal favorite coming directly from you...that SE is paying me to argue with you. You need to take a step back and regain some self control especially over your emotions and then apply some common sense to the issues and the possible solutions.

Seyb has it right, your not stating facts with such comments like you made earlier in this thread though I personally think he does not go far enough in that your not only stating your opinion but your exaggerating that opinion because you think it adds more weight to your arguments perhaps unaware your making it hyperbolic. The fact is SE will not make knee jerk reactions and dramatic changes just because you choose to over-dramatize the issues. They will do as I said earlier which is make minor adjustments and slight balancing alterations over time until they are happy with the outcome like they always have done in the past and they will take their time to evaluate the situation instead of making knee jerk reactions to the hyperbole being spread around these forums by some here. They certainly wont fire someone over the introduction of red scripts which one of your friends has asked them to do plus it is so unlikely that SE will do another drastic Crafting Reborn type thing before the next expansion comes out so pinning your hopes on such would not work out well.

Adjustments and balancing of skills usefulness, timer adjustments maybe, minor cap rate rise, lowering cost of materials from red scripts etc are the sort of things SE will be looking at plus over time increasing the amount of recipes for each craft...not removal of the red script system or removal of the existence of a cap rate and not adding BiS recipes to crafting as SE have been pretty clear about their stance on that for quite some time. So if you hope for one of those three latter things which I know for a fact you do since have said as much in other threads then you should adjust your expectations else I have a very strong feeling your going to be permanently disappointed. You also actually have a better chance of SE listening to you if you drop the hyperbole, exaggerations and over-dramatization of the issues...they will want actual facts and monitoring of in-game data plus reasonable, sensible and rational ideas and as such our not doing your cause any justice due to how your expressing your concerns.

Is there a new forum achievement for using the term hyperbole 1000 times or something? xD

[XLauncher]

I've been reading this thread and I am just laughing my ass off at someone trying to hold gil over scarebearz's head.

[Alysrea]

Alright, here's a generic message because I'm getting tired of repeating stuff.

Anyone who defends this system is either thick in the head, completely uninformed, or a troll. Fact. If you are defending, you are one of those three.

There is no fun to be had.
There is no money to be made.
There is only the grind to craft useless gear that will never sell.

Posts like this are the worst, Saying "There is no fun to be had" is just dumb, The system that is Crafting has not changed at all, we use 90% of the same skills we used in 2.XX, The only thing that has changed is profitability, If you think crafting currently is not fun. Guess what YOU NEVER ENJOYED CRAFTING, You Sir enjoyed making money.

Crafting and Making money are not the same thing. So don't confuse the two things when you try to explain your problems.
You are entitled to Lament the lack of opportunity to make money, I think it is reasonable to do so, But please focus your point on your real problems.

[scarebearz]

Crafting and Making money are not the same thing. So don't confuse the two things when you try to explain your problems.

Some like the challange of crafting new harder crafts for people, if hardly anyone can get the mats due to cost, then it is no fun.

Apart from the new 2* crafts, the other stuff is pretty much all macro-able and no challange at all.

[Lyrinn]

Posts like this are the worst, Saying "There is no fun to be had" is just dumb, The system that is Crafting has not changed at all, we use 90% of the same skills we used in 2.XX, The only thing that has changed is profitability, If you think crafting currently is not fun. Guess what YOU NEVER ENJOYED CRAFTING, You Sir enjoyed making money.

Crafting and Making money are not the same thing. So don't confuse the two things when you try to explain your problems.

Likewise to you. Darth may be overdramatic but he's not wrong either. You want to know why I think crafting isn't fun? Because this:



Look at all that supply! I could craft all of ... 0 items with this! And I don't forsee this getting any better next week, or even two weeks from now. Who cares about profit when we can barely even craft to begin with?

[Alysrea]

Some like the challange of crafting new harder crafts for people, if hardly anyone can get the mats due to cost, then it is no fun.

Apart from the new 2* crafts, the other stuff is pretty much all macro-able and no challange at all.

That is no different from before though in terms of macros and challenge, Yes material availability is slower and less available then before that just mean things will take time.

Likewise to you. Darth may be overdramatic but he's not wrong either. You want to know why I think crafting isn't fun? Because this:



Look at all that supply! I could craft all of ... 0 items with this! And I don't forsee this getting any better next week, or even two weeks from now. Who cares about profit when we can barely even craft to begin with?

While it is sad that you can't access all the items instantly off the market board at this time since they are newly available items, the main reason there is hardly any items on the market board is because those who can gather them are using them for their own crafting, which I don't think there is a problem with that, in time there will be more materials when people no longer need to make their own items and will sell their excess this is the case in most crafting, Gather for yourself before you gather for others.
In time you will get access to being able to make the items and I believe you will enjoy and feel a sense accomplishment for doing so, please don't get discouraged and continue to look forward to that day.

[XLauncher]

Except, the entire point of this system, supposedly, was to foster interdependence among crafters.

[scarebearz]

That is no different from before though in terms of macros and challenge, Yes material availability is slower and less available then before that just mean things will take time.



While it is sad that you can't access all the items instantly off the market board at this time since they are newly available items, the main reason there is hardly any items on the market board is because those who can gather them are using them for their own crafting, which I don't think there is a problem with that, in time there will be more materials when people no longer need to make their own items and will sell their excess this is the case in most crafting, Gather for yourself before you gather for others.
In time you will get access to being able to make the items and I believe you will enjoy and feel a sense accomplishment for doing so, please don't get discouraged and continue to look forward to that day.

You may like the idea of waiting (literally just waiting most of the time) several months to gear a couple of craft classes, then longer still to make i180 crafted gear (by this point everyone will be in full i200+ and i180 would be trash by comparison), but many of us hate this new system.

[Alysrea]

Except, the entire point of this system, supposedly, was to foster interdependence among crafters.

I think it will take more than a few days to see if the system fails in this regard or not, I know a lot of crafters and gatherers who are willing to sell materials and completed items at a point, but are currently holding onto tokens until more information is found out about the system to optimize the spending of their tokens.

The system might very well fail, I am not trying to defend the state of the game I just want to see people properly articulate the reasons why they don't like things currently.
Focus more on reasons than gut reactions.