Astro in savage

[Brightshadow]

I honestly feel people just want the class to be over powered. I personally have no problem healing with it.

The problem isn't whether or not they can heal we know that they can heal perfectly fine; however, compared to their peers they are the redhead stepchild that nobody wants in their parties because everything they do a whm/sch combo could do it much better. Sure the Astrologian looks great, and I can see why Square Enix decided to make them a hybrid in order to keep the perfect synergy between whm & sch; however, what they ended up doing is putting Astrologians in a awkward spot because if your a hybrid you can never be as good as a specialist automatically preventing you access to many parties unless SE decides to break the job and make it overpowered. Instead I think that the Astrologian should receive a redesign (Make their healing style unique) and make the cards the secondary mechanic of the job, this way they could compete with the specialist without being branded as the useless hybrid.

[EnvyHope]

Can you at the very least read the discussion instead of going for the generic "you just want to be OP"?
Thanks.

I read the conversation if you're upset over my opinon I could care less Thanks (:

[EnvyHope]

The problem isn't whether or not they can heal we know that they can heal perfectly fine; however, compared to their peers they are the redhead stepchild that nobody wants in their parties because everything they do a whm/sch combo could do it much better. Sure the Astrologian looks great, and I can see why Square Enix decided to make them a hybrid in order to keep the perfect synergy between whm & sch; however, what they ended up doing is putting Astrologians in a awkward spot because if your a hybrid you can never be as good as a specialist automatically preventing you access to many parties unless SE decides to break the job and make it overpowered. Instead I think that the Astrologian should receive a redesign (Make their healing style unique) and make the cards the secondary mechanic of the job, this way they could compete with the specialist without being branded as the useless hybrid.

I understand what you're saying (:

[Leiloni]

I'm no statistician, so anyone with more knowledge in field can correct my logic if I'm mistaken. If I recall my math properly, here's the logic.


The first 1/3 is the chance of you drawing the desired card (Arrow / Balance). This is a 33.3% probability

The second half of the equation is 1/3 * 2/3. This is the math to indicate the probability of drawing Arrow / Balance again if you had the opportunity to re roll your chances. You have a 2/3 chance to require a re-roll, and in that re-roll you have a 1/3 chance to get the card you want - hence the 1/3 * 2/3 = 2/9 or 22.2% chance.

You combine the two probabilities together to ascertain the probability of acquiring an Arrow / Balance card in two attempts, which is 55.5%.

With the assumption that I intend to RR my first card (regardless of the situation), my second draw will always be at the one minute after I potentially used a shuffle two draws ago, so I will always have shuffle up at the same time I'm drawing the card I want to use my RR effect on.

Thank you for the explanation!

Also, where did my post go?

[Zirael_Foxfire]

[...]Comments regarding how astrologians feel when healing throughout the various areas of content is very useful, so please continue to send us specific requests on each action's effect when battling through the different instances.

When playing Astrologian it feels like it is very weak. Healing is much lower that WHM and even SCH. I have 4 abilities on my hotbar for managing cards, but card buffs are weak and unpredictable. Whilst I'm playing Shuffle roulette to get The Balance, the tank is going into critical HP and my co-healer has to work double hard to keep up - that's a lost DPS opportunity. Why card buffs aren't AoE by default? Once you do your math, you realise single target Bole 1/6 of a time (random chance) for 15 seconds is pointless and doesn't increase overall raid DPS, especially when burst is called for. Why can't we choose what buff to use every time? And don't give me that 'it's written in the stars' nonsense. I've played COR in FFXI, so I know card buffing, even with random aspect, can be done right. AND healing AND doing damage on top of that on the same job.

When this Astrologian in random dungeon twiddles his thumbs wondering who to give this Ewer, my SCH is already dropping Shadow Flare->Bio->Bio II->Miasma II->BANE->Aero>Aero>Aero WHILST my Roused Selene covers the healing, drops 3% Speed on entire party and AoE Erases in an instant. Should I list WHM capabilities too?

Oh, and Celestial Opposition, did I mention Cellestial Opposition? Well, I'm sure someone already has.

Every time I see Astrologian in the party I think to myself "Damn, that's a wasted WHM party spot "

[Daralii]

Oh, and Celestial Opposition, did I mention Cellestial Opposition? Well, I'm sure someone already has.

Every time I see Astrologian in the party I think to myself "Damn, that's a wasted WHM party spot "

The weird thing about CO is that, during the last live letter, Yoshida said it was getting buffed/redesigned, but nothing when the patch came out. Hopefully we can still look forward to it and it wasn't scrapped or pushed back until 3.1.

I don't have AST at 60 so I don't have firsthand experience, but I have no idea what the point of CO is supposed to be.

[DarkmoonVael]

I honestly feel people just want the class to be over powered. I personally have no problem with it. I enjoy it in every way but , that's just my opinion.

You havent read the thread then. Its about AST lacking the tools and healing through-put to be able to replace either WHM or SCH in progression raiding and true end game. Many of us here also dont have an issue "healing" with it. Yet we understand its weak compared to the other 2 healers, thus unable to legitimately take the raid slot of a WHM or SCH. People wanting the weakest class in the game to be buffed is not wanting it to be overpowered. So tell, since you have no issues with it, how has your foray gone into alexander savage as an AST then? How much dps have you managed to push out with it? What are your HPS figures in a raid compared to WHM in diurnal and SCH in nocturnal?

[Budi]

I have played AST and SCH in Alexander (Savage) and posted about it here: Astro "Buffs"
My conclusion is basically: Taking an Astrologian instead of a Scholar is like taking a Lancer instead of a Dragoon.

[Lastelli]

snip

I confess I got a little lost in your argument with RichardButte. However, I feel like a 1.6% dps increase at the very least is a decent enough compensation for the current weaknesses of AST. Remember that using AST basically means that your co-healer cannot dps optimally (and you cannot dps as well because mana issues and weak healing) and this is a huge problem. The numbers you showed would still not be enough to replace a SCH's missing dps. Double AST isn't possible because you would lack healing power, the party would just die.
Also

Expand Balance / Arrow = 10-15% increase in raid DPS 55% of the time = 5.6% to 8.3% increase to total raid DPS

should be divided by 2 (the effectiveness of cards is halved when expanding). It would still trivialize very short (30 seconds or less) dps checks, yes, but in the long run it should be ok.
I believe that a more interesting case to analyze is the current contribution of AST to the raid dps. Again, assuming you will RR the first card and use shuffle on the 2nd draw, the probability of having an expanded arrow/balance should be 1/3*(1/3+1/3)=22.2% (actually a little higher because of spread, but let's keep things easy). The probability of having extended/enhanced arrow/balance are the same. Assuming balance=arrow for dps increase (I'm not very comfortable with this assumption, but still...), this basically means that this will provide an expected raid dps increase of 22.2%*5%/3+22.2%*15%/(6*2)+22.2%*10%/(6*2)=0.37%+0.28%+0.19%=0.85%.
I assumed that CO is used on the expanded version, time dilation on the enhanced version and some other assumptions about the contribution of the "best" dps player. Also I'm assuming constant dps (no "burn phases"). Let's multiply this by 4 (i.e. let's assume arrow/balance are 40%). We get 3.4% expected (avg) dps increase (similar to what you did). This is just to say that the idea of doubling or even tripling the effectiveness of cards is still not enough. Even more, an avg 5% dps increase (that is what you computed as the avg for a 60% arrow/balance and I think you're very close) is hardly better than a SCH that can full dps (mind you, the SCH is doing 5% of the raid dps in the parse you posted, and SCH+WHM is 7%) because it's an expected (uncertain) value, which is always "worse" than the same certain value unless the party really loves risk. Let me make this extreme example: 60% balance, expanded (30% raid dps increase) for 20 seconds every minute (CO on 60secs cooldown) and you draw perfect cards=10% total raid dps increase in the best case scenario. If healers can't dps because healing is harder with AST, this isn't much better than having WHM/SCH and healers can dps: according to this parse, it means 8130 raid dps with AST's buffs versus 8020 raid dps with SCH/WHM. Doesn't look too OP, right? As Zholi put it

Their (cards') power needs to be boosted so much that most people's initial reaction will be that the developers have gone overboard.

So...yeah I can't see an easy solution. Statistically speaking, a 50% effect of cards should be about right to make it on par with SCH/WHM if (big if) we believe that healers cannot dps when there's an AST in the party. However, this would make all short dps checks really easy to handle. But there's more: in a very lucky try (AST drawing very good cards) a party could meet dps checks too soon and the more hardcore parties might be able to clear the content in a few days, depending on their luck. This is why I think AST should be revamped. As you said, if they simply perform some fine tuning on the current skills I believe (hopefully I'm wrong) that AST will never be a viabe healer for raid progression...a pity. On the other hand, if they make AST statistically on par with the other healers, there will always be a chance that a lucky party will clear the content too soon, making AST mandatory for raiders aiming to world and server first clears.
Right now however cards are not enough even to compensate for AST's weaker dps.

[GeekMatt]

You can get past the character limit by editing your post.

...it's dumb design that discourages well written posts and increases frustration.