Can we please get a serious 24-man raid in 3.1?

[Stanelis]

It's too expensive in terms of resources/how many people actually participate. Content takes time to develop, test, balance, model, and so forth. It's a massive investment. And when you're talking about content that by its very nature is meant to limit access, this looks like an increasingly top-heavy investment. Spending a huge amount of time and resources on content that most players won't see/complete is foolish.

LOL at someone saying "not my problem, my 15 bucks will cover it" plz go. there's a reason why MMOs moved away from that type of raid model, its not sustainable. cost/effective.

Nobody is asking for hardcore 24 man raids. But there is a middle ground between too easy and too hard.

8 - At the moment they are doing pretty damn good.

Actually I wouldn't be so sure about that (at least in US and EU).

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

I agree with the OP. It has nothing to do with keeping a percentage of the playerbase out (how did this thought even come to mind?) nor about being hardcore.
It's about fun, comradery, social bonds with our FC. He is completely right, there is no point in being an FC really, just for the buffs and the house. Being part of a Linkshell or FC, being part of a group, a family sort of thing makes the playerbase enjoy their time in the game more because you get to know these people better and it's just completly different experience than that of a PUG party, or DF (can't even add players from other servers you meet on DF to your friendlist...). It's just random people you will probably never see again and most of them are just there to get fights done, not to get to know you, so it's not as easy to create a bond, unless you are really outgoing and they decide to get to know you, too (but we know farm parties are just there to get down with business...).

So it's not about the raid being hard or easy, that's not what it is about. It's about doing meaningful content with our FCs, to create bonds! The airship crafting is a step in the right direction and I am happy about it, now I can work together with my FC members for one same objective and it is so much fun.

[Lucidbro]

A game does not thrive by focusing on the select few hardcore players over the regular run of the mill players. Wildstar learned this the hard way, and WoW is getting its own lesson on the subject.

That's horseshit. WoW only started losing subs as it started making raids more accessible with LFR and simplifying it's talent system. And while I haven't played Wildstar, the endgame has been one of the only praises the game has gotten, it's everything besides it that it's getting critique for, for example the boring leveling and class balance.

[SDaemon]

That's horseshit. WoW only started losing subs as it started making raids more accessible with LFR and simplifying it's talent system. And while I haven't played Wildstar, the endgame has been one of the only praises the game has gotten, it's everything besides it that it's getting critique for, for example the boring leveling and class balance.

Wildstar endgame has had more than its fair share of negative critique, especially the ridiculous attunement.

[Cidel]

If players cannot do an easy 24 men raid, we really don't need for a harder one

This is actually very ironic, considering people could not do Second coil of Bahamut, and yet they added Savage. And there are clearly people who can't handle Alexander atm and the harder version is around the corner.

"Less-capable players are trying to run current content and failing, so there should be no reason to add harder content."


inb4 I'm accused of wanting savage-level 24-man.

oh, and-

why a serious 24 men raid when WoD fail horrible atm?

I can count on one hand how many times the alliance was hopeless enough to abandon duty for WoD. Not that you even have an argument here when we're talking premades on server-side. Seriously, the DF Crystal Tower series has scarred some people so bad apparently that they can't imagine anything else.

[myahele]

It all boils down to mechanic. Prior to way overgearing them, CT,ST and WoD can result (and still does sometimes) in a wipe if a mechanic is ignored. Making it "harder" will be meaningless oce everyone knows the mechanic

[Arkista]

There really needs to be Story and Hard mode versions of the next 24 man content. I always felt since Crystal Tower, that it was a huge waste. Why put in all that effort to make content to just give us Glamour. It should be the same way current alexander is. Normal Mode gives one set of lower ilvls and the Hard Mode gives a higher set. Yoshida really has to break the previous system, of having 8 man content and tomes being the only place to get BiS gear.

But you know Yoshida, He doesn't think about stuff like that.

It's too expensive in terms of resources/how many people actually participate.

Not that this is true, but if Yoshida would change things, it would increase the longevity of content. Right now the Vertical Progression system is making this game boring. It's always the same thing. You could take a 6 month break, come back and in one week, you can catch up with everyone else.

[Johaan]

Not that this is true, but if Yoshida would change things, it would increase the longevity of content. Right now the Vertical Progression system is making this game boring. It's always the same thing. You could take a 6 month break, come back and in one week, you can catch up with everyone else.

Rather have this system than having to play catchup for weeks/months depending on your playtime and begging people to carry you through stuff they outplayed months ago.

Or trying to obtain different pieces of Armour for different fights, lowering GC for skills, etc? Ultimately the choices presented to players by "horizontal" progression don't matter, and characters will be equipped with whichever items best boost their key stats best, and cause people to be left out and talked down to because they don't have X gear for X fight.

[AdamuKun322]

Probably be another Allaghan Theme Raid. Most likely people will be able to slice right through it as it'll probably drop gear between i170-i200 for the first part of it. Since within 2 months people will be fully geared in Esoteric Gear/Alexander Savage.

[Reivur]

This would be an incentive to get a better/bigger FC. Or a nice, big LS. Or really an FC that isn't just some multiple of 8.

Really, I don't know why people are to repugnant to the idea of challenging content for big groups; they've been a staple for MMO's since the beginning.

An idea being perpetuated 'since the beginning' is a terrible reason. See: Taboo IRL topics that I won't specifically mention as a foundation of why its a poor argument.

You don't want to join a bigger FC? That's perfectly fine: what prevents you from joining a dedicated Linkshell? Or creating/joining a party finder? Or shouting in the area close to the raid? Hell, you could even "ally" with another FC and form a mixed alliance.

...And then people complain this game isn't social enough.

I wasn't aware that people were clamoring for a game of logistics. I thought they were specifically seeking out game-play from their game.

23 people who have their kids wake up, bad weather KOing their internet, have to go to bed for work, their fish is drowning, etc. and then you get to try to find someone else, if you even can, and possibly get them up to speed on mechanics because difficult encounters often have steep learning curves, and then have people more experienced be patient for these new people for the thirtieth time from quitters instead of finding their own subset later that doesn't work for another sect of friends because of their scheduling conflicts for their jobs that pay the subscription and-- good lord, could we just play the game already?


Edit: As a footnote, the topic itself probably annoys me a bit more because I'm from a 10-man guild that abandoned ship on Mythic. We had a set of people that had a schedule that rarely anyone could conform to (Fridays and Saturdays), and we'd have to cut out playing with friends we were playing with for years to satisfy the sudden conditions of recruiting, or disbanding and melding with another guild (This would still involve cutting out friends to match their times, btw.). Guess what? We chose the SOCIAL option of playing with our friends and moved on to another game. Because Zzz @ Flex.