Oh the irony in the recent live letter Q n A

[Slirith]

Need to do what WoW did in WoD...needed to get silver in your roles Proving Ground to do heroic dungeons on that role.

[BlaiseArath]

If people already don't read tooltips or do guildhests, what makes you think they'd use tutorials? The tools to learn how to play your class are right there; the problem is that the majority of the players don't care enough to use them.

Because guildhests have little to no incentive and don't even teach you your job. They'll teach you small things about how some of the dungeon mechanics work but they're all so face-roll easy that you can ignore the mechanics of them and still win.... I mean yes its a funny little metaphor for how most dungeons are but it doesn't help a lick in raids. Plus tooltips offer no reward for reading them.

The suggestion should be that while these things can range from moderate to terribly dificult, they'll offer rewards which even the dunders will want to get. Offering a single High-Price Mat, some Tomes, or even a new "Point" system where you can exchange for various goods might attract attention... and by making them difficult but doable and teaching you how to do it over time, they can add rewards that fit. It probably won't help everyone but I know for a fact there are players out there who are terrible simply because they don't know better, not because they're stubborn lazy fools like the fella from a couple pages back.

Honestly I'm still kind of sad the only reasonable rewards in this game have to be "Tokens" or "Vanity" since SE is hellbent on strict vertical progression with literally all of one endgame raid being the end all of gearing your character.

[Kuroneko_Jutah]

tooltips offer no reward for reading them.

So knowing what a new ability does isn't reward enough for five to ten seconds of your time? Gosh reading sure is hard!

[BlaiseArath]

So knowing what a new ability does isn't reward enough for five to ten seconds of your time? Gosh reading sure is hard!

I learn the concepts of my job and utilize them to the best of my abilities, but I've played a lot of MMOs so its easier to me, and I can say for certain Job quests don't fully teach you nuances of a job, especially some of the more complex parts of the job. NIN quests didn't once force me to use a DoT effect, and while yes I would understand its still damage, this game attracts or tries to attract a lot of people new to MMOs, so they need to do a bit of a better job teaching them.. and they simply do not.

So, I'm not discussing what would give myself incentives, I'm talking about the types of people who don't know how to play their jobs, the ones who the OP says Yoshi is essentially telling to "get good". It has nothing to do with the incentives I want, but what incentives should there be to get those people who don't really better themselves to try and better themselves. I mean, people thought Steps of Faith was unfairly difficult, that should tell you full well the level of people we are addressing.

Yes, believe it or not, there are those types of people who don't bother to learn what their abilities do or how to effectively put them to use. And many may understand what it does but not know the proper use of them or how to effectively utilize it. Such as Flash as example, or the effects of DoT abilities on NIN and such. Even abilities most would understand as effective multiple enemy hate tools like Overwhelm, many not understand how to properly use or when to use. These are issues that could be addressed, and as I said in my post, this won't help everyone, but it will help those who are wanting to learn or have the will to learn but just weren't taught properly through job quests or lolguildhests.

I'd say the player base can help eachother but for every 1 person who teaches calmly or who listens and learns, theres a raging a**hole who will blow up on someone and then theres the people who will ignore advice and just continue sucking, creating a very difficult air when it comes to improving those who actually want help. Your attitude is precisely what I'm talking about too... I could be wrong I admit but from your post alone it sounds like you're more likely to call someone a "gimp noob" rather than offer advice because instead of considering why they might be playing badly you just condescend and treat them like they're idiots or lazy for not being on your level.

And yes, its true most of us are probably guilty of going "what a moron" in our heads before actually helping someone, I admit I am once or twice, because a I described a moment ago, its hard to offer advice to people when you have to gamble on if its a "I KNOW MY JOB THANKS" type of person who wants to remain ignorant, or someone who actually just doesn't understand it and could get better if taught well enough. its that air of unsure that makes it hard to teach players who actually need to be taught. Therefor I believe a good first step would be difficult solo "Dungeons" or "Trials" that offer rewards worth doing and really test your understanding of the job and its abilities.

[QiLymePye]

^^^^^^Well Said

[Colt47]

To this day there are still plenty of players who don't understand the benefits of using Fracture as a way to boost dps. At least with goring blade there is enough oomph on the initial attack to make it seem more immediately worthwhile.

[ChillbroSwaggins]

Now, what if we had that Maat type mentor, but he/she served as the parser? Marked our progress, kept certain challenge dps numbers as a high score of sorts? Use that legendary parser Yoshi claims only they have, and slap it on an npc, problem solved. If we fail an exercise, counsel us, and offer improvements. If we succeed, offer up glamour items or tomes. That would certainly give people more incentive to improve on their own, without fear of ridicule from the player base.

[QiLymePye]

Now, what if we had that Maat type mentor, but he/she served as the parser? Marked our progress, kept certain challenge dps numbers as a high score of sorts? Use that legendary parser Yoshi claims only they have, and slap it on an npc, problem solved. If we fail an exercise, counsel us, and offer improvements. If we succeed, offer up glamour items or tomes. That would certainly give people more incentive to improve on their own, without fear of ridicule from the player base.

I like that idea. Like our own personal tinkerbell following us around?

[Dante_V]

Just give people a personal dps meter already. It could be like tp is now, just the player sees it. Having dps checks of this sort without analytical tools to promote self improvement is silly. It's like asking people to drive the speed limit without a spedometer. There will always be people who don't care to learn but at least give those who do a fighting chance FFS.

[Dukeun]

It's really irritating that people think they can just do fates to 50+, hop into something and then have the audacity to cry wolf because they aren't at what they should be is the problem with this game and it's player base. Instead of fate grinding to 50, you should have been learning your class as it leveled. Not waited until level 54 to figure out how to use a skill you got for doing your level 35 job quest. You should have been learning how to use it at 35, and then thinking of how to fold it with the rest of your skills as time went on. Use one of those dummies to test things out on, try paying attention. You shouldn't need something outside of the game to tell you whether or not you suck; because frankly, if you do, you probably suck anyways, and not going to make you better. They give you all the information you need at your disposal, giving you another thing you aren't going to read isn't going to help.

Lower fate xp, and make people learn their classes by doing.