SE: your deadline

[Gramis]

I don\\\\\\\\'t know what the hub-bub is about; the OP paid money for a product and they see problems in it. You paid money for something you have the right to complain and no amount of rationalizing will ever change my mind. I understand that the OP is complaint with the grace of a drunk clown but when was it that we let companies, businesses and media outlets trick we are the entitled babies? I don\\\\\\\\'t know about you guys but I maybe have 250 bucks of disposable income a month, if I\\\\\\\\'m lucky. 15 bucks may not seem like much but that\\\\\\\\'s my money and I want to get the most out of it.

Instead of hittin the op with insult and snarky remarks; prove them wrong! Is he maybe using the machinist wrong? Maybe allocating stats differently might help. Jesus guys, I love this game too and I know the op is being kind of a dumb but the fact that no one is disputing his points leads me to believe we all agree and would rather fight amoungst ourselves than improve this game!

[Amaranth]

Dude...Take a long break...

[nuyu11]

I know Bard now not like before and I'm still wonder is this Job worth my time now or not, OP have his right to complain it just the way he express his feeling might be inappropriate.

[MageBlack]

Alright crissy, you have until 12 midnight to adjust your attitude or I will post again complaining about how terrible of a person you are, it is unacceptable for me as a human being to have to listen to your armchair demands. Simply put, human beings should never treat one another in this manner and unless you can make at least a slight effort to improve your attitude I will take my personal pointless opinions to another thread.

Sorry, just wanted to give a bit of perspective on how your attitude comes across. I don't really care one way or the other if you stay or go but to word your post in the way that you did was, imo appalling. Honestly, how would you react to some random person coming into your work place and saying the same sort of things you just said. Personally, I would make a point of doing the exact opposite of what it was you were requesting.

Now, to actually address the legitimate points in your post. Yes, there has been reported issues with the MCH, But it is a newer Job and, i'm sorry, but these things are to be expected and they have issued the appropriate response so far; they will continue to observe and adjust as things progress. Also all job skills level 50-60 are new too so they will take some tweaks before they will all be up to snuff with the rest of the game. I'm terribly sorry that things were not at your level of satisfaction right out the gate. It has been mentioned many times here in the forums, i'm pretty sure by now SE is aware that people feel there are issues. With the history of developer responses since Yoshi-P took over and the attentiveness this team had had with the game thus far, I'm not worried about it. i played WAR from ARR launch and preformed fine, even though the community claimed it was very broken. Eventually, with enough Constructive Feedback (which you have not provided) they did adjust the WAR. They have made so many adjustments and changes to this game because of the community it is insane. Looking at your join date, you started playing in Feb of this year, so I will forgive your lack of knowledge of the developing history of this game. I have been here since 1.0 beta so I have seen the evolution of the game in a more comprehensive way than you might have.

I would also like to point out that I believe you are also being dishonest about your first sentence. If you truly intended for this to be for the Devs only, there are methods of doing so. Coming to the communities general discussion board and then asking the community to butt out is rather... odd... to say the least.

But in the end it is completely your own choice and personal preference regarding what you choose to do with your time and money. If this game no longer satisfies your itch, then please, find something that makes you happy. Hopefully no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to play. I would recommend though that in the future you provide a more detailed explanation as to why you are having issues with the game. what you did with your post essentially is drove your car to an automotive shop, said "as you well know my car is shit, you have until X time to fix it or i will go elsewhere." then walked out of the office.

Sorry for the rant but this level of self entitlement with NO regard for the people they reference frosts me to no end. Have a good day and I do hope the issues with those two Jobs (because issues are present) does get resolved.

[Carson_The_Brown]

You make a number of valid points. I would like to just start with a small aside. You posting a link with an infographic describing a class you want to see implemented basically ensures it will never see the light of day. I wont go into detail here (this could be a book, and, sadly, probably is) but to summarize: US copyright law makes it a really fishy proposition to implement an idea unless you have a legally binding contract saying it is free to use, which, unfortunately, does not a forum sig make. I haven't looked at your link as I am a designer myself, not for this game in particular but for a number of other projects, and hope to work for SE some day. I am sure you are not the type of person to do this, but say they implement a class that functions very similarly to your Fencer and you decide that your idle musings constitute intellectual property. You could sue because you think you deserve a cut of the cake. If you did that, SE would have 2 options, either pull out of North America entirely (which means we miss out on the next FF and KH along with any hope of a Kingdom Hearts ride at DisneyWorld) or face your lawsuit and potentially lose all North American profits from the expansion your Fencer was featured in, which could easily snowball into all the money they had earmarked for other major projects like KH3 and FFXV.

Now, onto the meat of the issue.

Erm...no. This claim might have weight if the devs had made it part of BRD gameplay from MUCH earlier in the leveling process and adjusted everything that was BRD's DPS model to make it work (putzing around with potencies outside of WM, removing most of the oGCD attacks that they weave in or possibly have WM change how they work as a whole). WM was basically plopped on to BRD at lv52 with two of the new shots being gated behind it. Nevermind the overall lack of synergy between WM and the rest of BRD's arsenal (and by proxy, MCH has a similar issue).

In short, a perpetual model game with no mutability is a boring game. Market analysis indicates that even consumers of entertainment that like the original product eventually get bored. A useful analogy is as follows: say your favourite ice cream is Oreo chip. Every time you go out to eat you get Oreo chip, maybe even a second or third scoop. Now, imagine if you were somehow magically constrained in such a way that you could only gain sustenance from Oreo chip ice cream. I know my favourite food is lasagna with swiss, parmesan and sausage but by day 3 of lasagna I want a freaking cheeseburger. Same goes with entertainment. You would eventually get bored of the same version of Bard, just like everyone else. It really sucks when this change doesn't happen by your schedule (in this analogy, the parlor runs out of Oreo chip before you're finished), but that's okay, there's still lots of other flavors. Oreo chip will be back some day and it will be even better than you remember. but for now you should try something else.

I fell in love with Strawberry when my favourite ice cream shop stopped selling Oreo.

Barring poor design decisions or not adjusting stuff until later (WAR at launch, DRGs with lower magic defense during Final Coil), this game has been pretty good when it comes to balancing jobs. What you're alluding to to never really happened. The worst I think was the anti-melee stance some FCs running content took around 2.2-ish. And even that I blamed on the fact that since raids don't have multiple bosses, it's more difficult to encourage balanced raid comps.

This sounds like an argument borne of EA and Activision. Yes, a lot of companies release shoddy, unpolished games and expect players to provide free feedback. SE, however, has no history of this behavior. Many issues (such as exploitable loopholes in a class's spell list) will never come to light at an in house testing division without literally millions of testing personnel. In house testing is good for mechanical testing; "does this cause a fatal exception?" "Are all the walls solid?" "Does this boss reset every time the White Mage casts Cure?" etc. Outside of those issues, its really kind of impossible to see how everything works until its in the hands of the masses.

It sort of is when these changes should have seen a lot more testing. A beta test like what we had for ARR would have been nice, if only because several of these issues we've seen could have been ironed out then. I'll add that SE wanting to keep everything about this expansion secret is partly to blame.

I must remind you that SE is a firm couched deeply in the traditions of cinema and literature. Its a very real possibility that they believed this thing would never leave the ground if the players already knew what would happen. Yes, the belief that you can't even reveal the class list without ruining everything is a bit silly but we must all remember the pedigrees of the game designers whom are, ultimately, mistake prone humans. They could have done better in the lead up to this thing but all we can expect them to do is tweak their strategy from here on. The past (no matter how immediate) can't be changed and its useless to punish them so harshly for a small misstep.

[Kore_Hyperion]

Bye-bye OP.

[SDaemon]

Instead of hittin the op with insult and snarky remarks; prove them wrong! Is he maybe using the machinist wrong? Maybe allocating stats differently might help. Jesus guys, I love this game too and I know the op is being kind of a dumb but the fact that no one is disputing his points leads me to believe we all agree and would rather fight amoungst ourselves than improve this game!

They would first have to provide a valid argument with details, criticism and feedback. Can't prove someone wrong when they haven't even brought anything to the table to argue about. You talk about no one disputing their points, however the OP had no points to even attempt to dispute. They gave an ultimatum demanding changes to BRD/MCH, what changes? and how should SE implement them? These are some of the questions they should have at least attempted to address.

[Violyre]

I don\\\\\\\\'t know what the hub-bub is about; the OP paid money for a product and they see problems in it. You paid money for something you have the right to complain and no amount of rationalizing will ever change my mind. I understand that the OP is complaint with the grace of a drunk clown but when was it that we let companies, businesses and media outlets trick we are the entitled babies? I don\\\\\\\\'t know about you guys but I maybe have 250 bucks of disposable income a month, if I\\\\\\\\'m lucky. 15 bucks may not seem like much but that\\\\\\\\'s my money and I want to get the most out of it.

Instead of hittin the op with insult and snarky remarks; prove them wrong! Is he maybe using the machinist wrong? Maybe allocating stats differently might help. Jesus guys, I love this game too and I know the op is being kind of a dumb but the fact that no one is disputing his points leads me to believe we all agree and would rather fight amoungst ourselves than improve this game!

It's probably because all of us have been through this song and dance every time SE changes anything. We see people threaten to quit if they don't get their way, and many of them never quit. After awhile, people give up trying to plead logic with them, because it usually turns out to be a waste of everyone's time. We'd give the same reaction if someone came in here threatening to quit with insane math and logic on why they were going to quit. Repetition is pointless. A better way of this would be to start a thread to the effect of "MCH, help show SE that we want change!" Show the reasons why the job needs some change. No threats to quit, just quit if you're unhappy.

Quit or don't, no one cares, and we will continue to make jokes about those people that feel that their ultimatums will make the company go "OMG This person is right! We need to fly them to our city so they can help us make this game better!."

[Escha]

Goodbye...

[Duelle]

In short, a perpetual model game with no mutability is a boring game.

While this is true, there's something to be said of change for the sake of change, change that adds to current gameplay (SMN, DRG, BLM), and change that turns the design inside out with few positives (BRD).

This sounds like an argument borne of EA and Activision. Yes, a lot of companies release shoddy, unpolished games and expect players to provide free feedback. SE, however, has no history of this behavior. Many issues (such as exploitable loopholes in a class's spell list) will never come to light at an in house testing division without literally millions of testing personnel. In house testing is good for mechanical testing; "does this cause a fatal exception?" "Are all the walls solid?" "Does this boss reset every time the White Mage casts Cure?" etc. Outside of those issues, its really kind of impossible to see how everything works until its in the hands of the masses.

I should feel a little insulted to be compared for EA and Activision. My argument comes from having raided in other games and what raid design does to comps and group make ups. If you have a dungeon with one or two bosses that are designed to favor ranged over melee, raids are going to sit melee. If you have a dungeon with two bosses that are designed to punish ranged and favor melee, ranged are going to get sat and raids will stack melee.

Conversely, if you have a dungeon with 10 bosses, where 5 bosses favor melee and 5 bosses favor ranged, the raid is encouraged to bring a balanced comp in order to properly deal with all mechanics. It's the same mindset used to justify the presence of an offtank or two despite the fact they may not be "active" during certain parts of the raid (some encounters may need only one tank while others may call for 2 or 3).

I must remind you that SE is a firm couched deeply in the traditions of cinema and literature. Its a very real possibility that they believed this thing would never leave the ground if the players already knew what would happen. Yes, the belief that you can't even reveal the class list without ruining everything is a bit silly but we must all remember the pedigrees of the game designers whom are, ultimately, mistake prone humans. They could have done better in the lead up to this thing but all we can expect them to do is tweak their strategy from here on. The past (no matter how immediate) can't be changed and its useless to punish them so harshly for a small misstep.

Except they blocked key parts of the main storyline during the ARR beta to avoid spoilers, so at most people had an idea of how the story started but little else to go by. Most of the beta was restricted to Central and East Shroud.

I wouldn't expect them to have all 6 new zones accessible for a beta. I'd probably have it set in Sea of Clouds with NPCs that gave level bumps to allow the testing of characters in specific brackets (probably starting at lv50-52, then with a bump to 56 and a bump to 60).