A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Tuathaa]

And why would any other MMOs deviate from it? People have shown that they wish to have the same formula from that other MMO shoved down their throats time and time again. Any MMO which deviates from the formula set by it will have a situation like this occur. The gating in this game's MSQ pales in comparison to how FFXI gated their MSQ in CoP. In that game the MSQ was very challenging, and without completing it you could not access the endgame area. It was FFXI's most successful expansion. Not to mention FFXIV has a very valid in game reason for gating you, and if they just let anyone bypass it, it would destroy the entire lore of the world.

You know I said current right?

[Zabuza]

Get real, seriously. Brainwashed, because I answered your question? Brainwashed, because I gave you the answer other people are going to give you as well? Brainwashed, because I disgree with you on an internet forum about an online video game? Brainwashed, because I gave you an answer with decades of evidence backing it?

I don't think you actually can post without insulting someone or something.

It wasn't the fact you answered it, it was the way you answered it.

Grinding dungeons for gear is okay, because that's been the standard for games for approximately forever in RPGs.

So that's your reasoning. Because it's the standard. That's it. What MMO do you think established the standard for what MMOs are today? Whether you realize it or not, you had proved my point with that sentence. Because the MMO market has established it as something that's ok, it must be ok. Because other current MMOs don't gate things behind story, it's not ok. That's your entire reasoning.

[Zabuza]

You know I said current right?

I realize what you had said. Why do you think that is? MMO companies are afraid to innovate, lest they lose customers. SE is trying to breathe life back into this shattered genre by going with a move that is slightly off the norm, and look at the backlash.

[ThanMazus]

That's your entire reasoning.

How the tables have turned! Now it's MY turn to say someone didn't read! I said RPGs, not MMOs! You made a lot of ridiculous assumptions on my logic and reasoning and you're completely misguided in doing so! RPGs have been out far longer than MMOs, and that was the reference I was making. 30~ years of history is a lot stronger backing than saying "well, it must be because this OTHER MMO does it and that's what you think because you're brainwashed"

Now seriously, try making just a single post, just one, without leaping to conclusions in order to say bad things about a person or a game. Try it, you might like it!

[Zabuza]

How the tables have turned! Now it's MY turn to say someone didn't read! I said RPGs, not MMOs! You made a lot of ridiculous assumptions on my logic and reasoning and you're completely misguided in doing so! RPGs have been out far longer than MMOs, and that was the reference I was making. 30~ years of history is a lot stronger backing than saying "well, it must be because this OTHER MMO does it and that's what you think because you're brainwashed"

Now seriously, try making just a single post, just one, without leaping to conclusions in order to say bad things about a person or a game. Try it, you might like it!

I already covered that point, if you go back and look, and trumped you.

There you go, you literally just admitted to being brainwashed. As for your last sentence, the influence of that other game stretches over the entire MMO genre itself. They made this model popular, and other MMO creators emulated it. So even if someone hadn't played that juggernaut MMO, they likely played a game based off the same model, or had a conception of what an MMO was supposed to be, all shaped from that game. If you wanna talk standards for just RPGs, gating things behind the story is also a staple of single player RPGs, or at least FF in general. If we're talking MMOs well... see above.

And yes, you did misunderstand. I wasn't saying the same people who want to skip the MSQ also want free best in slot gear. Far from it. They accept they won't get best in slot gear as ok but somehow now that they have to complete a story, that's a travesty.

Literally edited that in one minute after making that post, ten minutes before you just made this post trying to make me look bad, so no, try again.

So if we're really talking single player RPGs, tell me why gating things behind story in single player RPGs is ok, but gating things behind MMOs are not? Were you upset when you couldn't get to the Northern Cave in FFVII in disc 1? No, you probably didn't even know about its existence until you actually played through the STORY and had it explained to you why you were even going to the Northern Cave.

Thank you so much for bringing this up, because at the end of the day, despite it being forgotten through the years by companies and players, this is an MMORPG. Luckily, SE still remembers this!

[ThanMazus]

I already covered that point, if you go back and look, and trumped you.

Holy sweet Christ on a Cross. I am not a time traveler, you edited your post while I was posting. You didn't "trump" anything. If anything, SE Has trumped trying to have any sort of conversation with forums from the 1900s.

Editing my post so I can tell you to go back and read it at some point in the future - The fact that you think I'm trying to "make you look bad" is telling. I don't care how you look. I care about people coming in with nothing to contribute but accusations and insults towards people with different preferences. "Go back to WoW" is worthless to post, and yet every single time someone wants a change, this is what they are greeted with.

[Tuathaa]

I realize what you had said. Why do you think that is? MMO companies are afraid to innovate, lest they lose customers. SE is trying to breathe life back into this shattered genre by going with a move that is slightly off the norm, and look at the backlash.

This isn't even slightly off norm or innovative for the FF franchise and they aren't trying to breathe new life into the genre. Now your kidding yourself. They just made another FF game same as always.
Where games like WoW, SWtOR, GW2 and the others excel is that they listen to their player base and actually tries to deliver on requests, content, and gamplay suggestions. SE seems to just want to do their own thing and really couldn't care.
Which is why threads like this exist and go for 55+ pages.

[Zabuza]

This isn't even slightly off norm or innovative for the FF franchise and they aren't trying to breathe new life into the genre. Now your kidding yourself. They just made another FF game same as always.
Where games like WoW, SWtOR, GW2 and the others excel is that they listen to their player base and actually tries to deliver on requests, content, and gamplay suggestions. SE seems to just want to do their own thing and really couldn't care.
Which is why threads like this exist and go for 55+ pages.

SWToR had to go F2p because it wasn't succeeding. They now rely on their Cartel Market to stay afloat. GW2 was never a sub game, though I will admit it's in a healthy state. I can't comment too much on that game, as I played it for one week. I didn't like their model of being able to get the best looking gear so quickly.

If we're going to reference the juggernaut MMO by name. Go head on over to their forums and see how it is over there. They are bleeding subs in the millions. Our forums are tame compared to how it is over there. They listened to players too much and are now paying the price for it. They watered down their game into the casual mess that it is today(outside of their raiding.) All to cater in to the relentless crying from the players of how they believed things should be. NOW look at what is happening to it. THAT is what scares me will happen to this game. In fact, a lot of their players are migrating to here currently, enjoying the game.

The players are NOT always right. People will always complain no matter what you do. When one tries too hard to appease the masses, forgetting the vision and love of their product, they ultimately will fail eventually.

[Tuathaa]

If we're going to reference the juggernaut MMO by name. Go head on over to their forums and see how it is over there. They are bleeding subs in the millions. Our forums are tame compared to how it is over there. They listened to players too much and are now paying the price for it. They watered down their game into the casual mess that it is today(outside of their raiding.) All to cater in to the relentless crying from the players of how they believed things should be. NOW look at what is happening to it. THAT is what scares me will happen to this game. In fact, a lot of their players are migrating to here currently, enjoying the game.

The issue with WoW is they stopped listening to their player base and decided they know what's best for the game and what the players wanted. They will eventually realize that for the game to succeed again the will need to start involving the community and stop ignoring them.

[Tuathaa]

The main staple and income of SWtOR by the way is the subs. That's what keeps the lights on over there and pays the salaries. Cartel market is their little "cash cow"