A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Zabuza]

The issue with WoW is they stopped listening to their player base and decided they know what's best for the game and what the players wanted. They will eventually realize that for the game to succeed again the will need to start involving the community and stop ignoring them.

They went to the extreme casual end of the spectrum, practically making part of their game into a mobile/facebook game, which turned out terribly.

The main staple and income of SWtOR by the way is the subs. That's what keeps the lights on over there and pays the salaries. Cartel market is their little "cash cow"

I do have to comment on this, as I played SWToR for awhile. They most definitely do not listen to their players, at least not before I left it six months ago. Their devs hardly EVER reply in their forums. They launched with too many servers, so their launch went well, but after the initial rush died down as it always does, most of the servers turned into ghost towns. The people pleaded with the devs over and over to merge the servers, but by the time they had done so it was too late. A lot more players had already left. Classes were left unbalanced for up to a year. The game has more persistent bugs than I've seen in any sub MMO. They seemed to be more interested in cosmetic things, such as adding a new vanity pet or mount, rather than fixing bugs and the things wrong with the core design of their game. That downfall personally hurt me, as they had the potential to be so much more, even more than WoW if they did it right. They were the one company that had the Intellectual Property capable of surpassing WoW with their brand. 2-3 million subs right out of the gate... but then, that potential was not capitalized on.

[Tuathaa]

"Go back to WoW" is worthless to post, and yet every single time someone wants a change, this is what they are greeted with.

And everyone who says "Go back to WoW" should be answered with go back to FFXI because it will soon get referenced and worshipped by them

[Zabuza]

Editing my post so I can tell you to go back and read it at some point in the future - The fact that you think I'm trying to "make you look bad" is telling. I don't care how you look. I care about people coming in with nothing to contribute but accusations and insults towards people with different preferences. "Go back to WoW" is worthless to post, and yet every single time someone wants a change, this is what they are greeted with.

It's not an accusation, it's truth. I actually don't want WoW players to go back to WoW. WoW players are more than welcome here. But if you're going to play here, accept and appreciate this game for what it is. Don't try to force WoW upon us, or change this game into WoW, please.

[ThanMazus]

It's not an accusation, it's truth.

like a dozen posts about people being brainwashed, players wanting raid gear without raiding, etc.

At least you're more welcoming than "Accept it as it is or quit", as small a distinction as that is.

Due to 1900s forums posting, I cannot make a new reply. I already posted that I've beaten the entire MSQ, and skipped every single cutscene on the way. I'm going to pass on taking an easy swipe about not reading for the larger point of, yet again, *NEW PLAYERS* did not get such a warning, because they weren't around when we got all those warnings.

I stopped doing the MSQ back at like 2.1 (until they made the announcement) because I don't care, even a little bit, about the plot. It's just a wall between me and the things I actually enjoy doing in this game, and I can understand why people don't like that wall. I already lost 1 friend due to the MSQ wall separating us, and another is on the fence about quitting because he has to complete everything in order to try one of the new jobs.

[Zabuza]

At least you're more welcoming than "Accept it as it is or quit", as small a distinction as that is.

And your alternative is what? To try to change the game? You know what I do when I don't enjoy a game? I quit. If it's really that much of an issue for you, then don't play. If you don't derive enjoyment from this game, don't play. It's simple. If you enjoy the game enough, then play through the MSQ. If it's too much of an obstacle, then don't...It's like someone who enters a relationship with their partner, knowing what they are, but then later complains about their situation and constantly tries to change their partner. Like...you knew what you were getting into, didn't you? It was advertised months in advance that players would have to complete this MSQ before being able to access Heavensward. It's not like they pulled a fast one on you.

[KisaiTenshi]

Relevant...

[QiLymePye]

I'm not suggesting they allow people to skip the ENTIRE STORY. So since people think this this is what many are saying, lets clarify with some questions:

#1: Do you agree/disagree that there are alot of fetch quests, regardless of how much exp that you receive, that can be removed because they contribute very little to the OVERALL theme and focus of the story?

#2: Could SE have come to a compromise to allow certain aspects of Heavensward to be unlockable right out of the gate? For example- maybe having at least 1 of the 3 jobs available out the gate or at lvl 50. Something to wet the mouths of the people that PAID for a part of a game that they can't access nor was advertised that they couldn't access.

#3: Is this game really an MMO? Think about it...how much of this game do you actually do as a team, in a group? If you take out the MMO elements, you are still left with over 80% of the original game. IMO, gating all of this content behind the main story is hypocritical to calling this game an MMO. It really isn't people. I do everything solo except some dungeons, some trials, and a few mini raids. This game is just a single player rpg with some multi-player breaks in game play. If you took out endgame raids, you would retain 90% of the game but probably lose about 20-30% player base. If you took out main story quest and just left raids and some dungeons, you would retain about 20% game and retain about 10-20% player base. In short, this game IS NOT an MMO, hence why I think they gated everything behind Heavensward, as though Heavensward is just DLC.

[KisaiTenshi]

I'm not suggesting they allow people to skip the ENTIRE STORY. So since people think this this is what many are saying, lets clarify with some questions:

#1: Do you agree/disagree that there are alot of fetch quests, regardless of how much exp that you receive, that can be removed because they contribute very little to the OVERALL theme and focus of the story?

#2: Could SE have come to a compromise to allow certain aspects of Heavensward to be unlockable right out of the gate? For example- maybe having at least 1 of the 3 jobs available out the gate or at lvl 50. Something to wet the mouths of the people that PAID for a part of a game that they can't access nor was advertised that they couldn't access.

#3: Is this game really an MMO? Think about it...how much of this game do you actually do as a team, in a group? If you take out the MMO elements, you are still left with over 80% of the original game. IMO, gating all of this content behind the main story is hypocritical to calling this game an MMO. It really isn't people. I do everything solo except some dungeons, some trials, and a few mini raids. This game is just a single player rpg with some multi-player breaks in game play. If you took out endgame raids, you would retain 90% of the game but probably lose about 20-30% player base. If you took out main story quest and just left raids and some dungeons, you would retain about 20% game and retain about 10-20% player base. In short, this game IS NOT an MMO, hence why I think they gated everything behind Heavensward, as though Heavensward is just DLC.

Ugh, stop bumping this thread without actually reading it, and it has devolved into name calling several pages ago. It was on the third page.

#1) There are fetch quests and people are equating the optional fetch quests with the Storyline. Most of the Storyline quests are simply "go to X and talk to someone" which lead up to longer cutscenes that are voiced. The quests up to the GC selection consist of a lot of "talk to X who is in Y zone" designed to have you find the Aetheryte and optional sidequests in those zones and little else.

#2) No, because All three of the jobs are locked behind NPC's in Ishgard. The MCH and AST are started at the MCH and AST guilds. The DRK is started by talking to a random NPC who is just standing around, and once you activate it, another NPC shows up in the Brume who gives you the job stone. They aren't like the V1.0/V2.0 classes which you can switch to by simply equipping the necessary level 1 weapon you get from "joining" the guild. There was absolutely no reason any of these extra jobs to be made available without completing ARR.

#3) Yes it's a MMO. All but a few job quests, the dungeon content is played with other players. It's a Final Fantasy game first though, which means the story is integral to playing it, and even trying to nerf parts of the storyline would be just as much work as writing new content. So it is NOT going to happen. This is the wrong game for people who hate story content, and is the wrong game for people who just want a RP sandbox. If people are demanding WoW-type "skip everything but the most recent expansion pack", they should go back to WoW and quit trying to make FFXIV even more WoW'ish. A lot of playing FFXIV are playing FFXIV because we don't want WoW and don't want the Freemium cash shop trend to infect the game further.

[QiLymePye]

^^^^Dude, I read the whole damn thread. I don't care that they were "Locked" behind ishgard. My point is they didn't have to be. Why lock them behind ishgard but im running back to Limsa Lominsa to continue MCH job quest? Its a slap in the face. And no, this is not an mmo in the traditional sense. Without the dungeons, 80% of this game is solo. You don't even have to interact with others until your first dungeon at lvl15. Most of the story is solo. And I'm not playing FFXIV because of WoW. I've never played WoW. Im playing because I played FFXI and enjoyed it. It sounds like you are playing because you left WoW because of some cash shop stuff.

It doesn't mean that SE isn't wrong about what they did to the new players. They didn't even have the balls to tell people that Heavensward would be completely unaccessible UNTIL you complete ARR. Because of course, that would have affected their sales and subs. It doesn't matter that the locked it behind Ishgarde, the point is they didn't have to. These jobs could have been added outside of Ishgarde without affecting story, or allow players to access Ishgard without finishing main story but those players are not allowed to....guess what??? access the story quest in Ishgard? The Jobs are their own story and have very little to do with the main story. You could finish Ishgarde without even unlocking the new jobs. So whats the point?

[QiLymePye]

I also wanted to point out, having lvl30 jobs locked behind finishing huge, main game, then telling people that to lvl those jobs, they have to go all the way back to lvl 30 areas and dungeons...doesn't make any sense. Why not just start the jobs out at lvl 50 then. Because most of the players just starting or coming back after a long time away are doing the low lvl stuff anyways. Just give them the jobs. And extra Jobs? Were the Jobs supposed to be a reward for veteran players for playing through everything? If so, then they should have just let veteran players unlock the jobs and not advertise all over the place enticing people to buy something they essentially can't use right away.