Machinist needs serious attention

[Ramath]

Either we get the WAR 2.1 treatment, or we wait till Patch 3.3 and they increase the potency of Split Shot by 10. >_>

Man, oh man, I hope this isn't the case... While SE has over-buffed jobs in the past, look how long it took to address other issues. Like, after they screwed up the BLM's Astral/Umbral timers, or how long it took to address the M.Def for MNK and DRG. Or, how about changing how positionals work?

Do we really want to wait over a year to get looked at?

[DreadRabbit]

snip

I don't see why I wouldn't invite a class/job. So what if they're not the top end in numbers? If the player's good/willing to learn and we have fun together, that's what matters.

I'll also probably give it a try simply because I'd like to have another DPS (I figure at least 2 of each role would be a good thing to aim for right now). I admit that archer/BRD just wasn't my cup of tea so I don't know what I expect from MCH. But given that I main BLM right now the concept of casting times doesn't bug me much at all. And I played classes with turret systems before in other games (I'm thinking Dragon Nest mostly) so it feels a little familiar already in theory. We shall see.

[Nadirah]

Why do I want to level MCH next? It looks badass.

[LittleArrow]

Thanks DreadRabbit for the response and your thoughts!

I know most of this thread has been discussing how low damaging MCH are, but there are more problems to this class than the damage (though that's a pretty big one and imo should definitely be addressed). Players have made comments about the effort it takes to put out the very little reward in dps.

After reading Ramath's post I questioned myself in why I ever accepted my BRD's dps being as low as it was during 2.0. In every MMO I've played (WoW, LotRO, Rift, FFXI, and many others) I can't remember there being such a disparity between ranged and melee classes being played by good players as the disparity I see in FFXIV. Sure, some classes were at times more OP than others. Those seasons of OPness though only lasted for a few months. Still, whenever I played ranged classes I never felt the way I feel on BRD and MCH, so why was I ok with it? Well, b/c BRD was so freaking easy to play. I didn't mind trading off my DPS by a reasonable margin so I could just enjoy a less stressful role in coil, which led to me doing callouts.

However, MCH is not BRD.

MCH takes more babysitting than any other class I've played in this game besides healing, and even then I think I could make an argument that tunnel visioning over 9 buffs and 3 procs is more babysitting than watching 8 health bars. MNK, DRG, NIN, and BLM all have their own method of complexity. If I'm expected to play MCH efficiently with the damage comparable to BRD, then this class needs to be edited to reflect that gameplay.

I enjoy going crazy with click buffs, but really the only 'new' thing with this class is basically an aetherflow concept. We get stacks that allows us to use our combos. This class needs serious editing. Skills need to be combined (like Blank + Suppressive Fire for example). There needs to be something to address the buff babysitting to make it fun.

I'm not asking for an easy class like BRD, but I am pointing out that if I'm going to do BRD damage the class should be less stressing over cooldown timers and more about having fun with them. This class needs a focus like PLD has been given. This class needs a focused theme. Yes we have guns, yes we have gadgets, but where Dark Knight was inspired by the likes of Guts (and the class feels very much like a selfish, dark, crazy run in and slash'em up sort of class), MCH to me feels like Yosemite Sam from Looney Toons, frantically firing off whatever I can to catch up in damage only to realize I'm not really doing much of anything in the end.

[Shneibel]

This job has a high skill cap

it does !? you mean after opening rotation, spam 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1, what kind of skill is that !?

[Balipu]

Hmmm this is interesting. I planned to level Machinist after finishing the MSQ. I wil lstil ldo it but will look out for the damage problem. I don't mind the large ammount the babysitting. Obvioulsy that was th reason why the job was locked behind the gate of judgement. It's complicated.

[LittleArrow]

Obvioulsy that was th reason why the job was locked behind the gate of judgement. It's complicated.

Lol, that's true. To be completely honest, as naysayery as I may be about this class, I love playing it. I just know it can be more polished like some of the other jobs if we can build enough awareness.

I don't hate the babysitting... but I know there could be a funner way to do it.

[Balipu]

Lol, that's true. To be completely honest, as naysayery as I may be about this class, I love playing it. I just know it can be more polished like some of the other jobs if we can build enough awareness.

I don't hate the babysitting... but I know there could be a funner way to do it.

I'm sure I'll have a blast as well. Pun intended.

[RiceisNice]

Major fights have considerable movement. This will effect everyone's numbers. Parsing standing still does not reflect how the jobs will play out in a raid setting.

The nature of GB/WM requires you to be standing still anyway. If the damage output from using those is a very minor increase, if not a dps loss, whats the point of even using it in a fight outside of burst?

So, why are we okay with DRG and SMN parsing extremely high, while BRD and MCN parse so much lower?
Outside of giving MP to our beloved healers, why should we be allowed to attend raids?

Machinist right now from what I feel is the very representation of "Jack of all, master of none", which really has no place in an MMO setting. None of the support/debuffs they give are unique to the class, and its comparatively weaker than what's already available. On top of overall lower damage output:

-Trick Attack has a lower cooldown, higher effectiveness and affects both sources. Hypercharge's cooldown is twice as long (2 minutes), half the effectiveness, and only affects one type of damage source (with a lower potency being attacked to the magic vulnerability one since that's bishop)
-Virus has an effective cooldown of 1 minute-90 seconds, 10% effectiveness to both sources. Mind Rend/Wrench Toss both share cooldowns at 90 seconds at 5% effectiveness toward one source. There's no antibody attached to it, but no one would want to bring two machinists to a single raid with how low their damage output is.
-Even down to their TP/MP regen, their turret is a weaker regen compared to bard singing, for probably a higher dps loss since they've reduced bard's penalty to 15%. The only upside to this is that it's an instant cast to switch the turret from attack to support. Hypercharging to boost this is also shared with the vulnerbility debuff mentioned before at a 2 minute cooldown.

[lokinmodar]

Thanks DreadRabbit for the response and your thoughts!

I know most of this thread has been discussing how low damaging MCH are, but there are more problems to this class than the damage (though that\\'s a pretty big one and imo should definitely be addressed). Players have made comments about the effort it takes to put out the very little reward in dps.

MCH to me feels like Yosemite Sam from Looney Toons, frantically firing off whatever I can to catch up in damage only to realize I\\'m not really doing much of anything in the end.

I felt just like that in my first Ravana HM fight yesterday. Frustrating.