The Monk Temple Reborn

[Zamii]

Assuming the rotation stays the same, and that the Skill Speed DoT boost is a very real thing, do you MNKs think Skill Speed could become the ultimate substat for you guys? Not necessarily point for point, but DET <-> SS ratio is uneven.

skill speed will be even less useful in my eyes, since we have a large amount of damage (tornado kick, forbidden chakra and elixir drive) that wont be affected by skill speed in the slightest, of course the scaling could be stupid high so who knows.
also, as i've pointed out before, the TP regen skill that monks are getting is borderline useless, any fights that we actually need it in, we simply wont be able to use it because we wont have the downtime required to gain chakra.

[ChaozK]

skill speed will be even less useful in my eyes, since we have a large amount of damage (tornado kick, forbidden chakra and elixir drive) that wont be affected by skill speed in the slightest, of course the scaling could be stupid high so who knows.
also, as i've pointed out before, the TP regen skill that monks are getting is borderline useless, any fights that we actually need it in, we simply wont be able to use it because we wont have the downtime required to gain chakra.

I wouldnt say useless, you would probably just use your first 5 chakra stacks that you generated pre battle on the tp skill rather than forbidden chakra. 200 TP alone should be enough to let you reach your next invigorate and anything longer than that means other jobs will need a tp song anyhow.

[Zamii]

I wouldnt say useless, you would probably just use your first 5 chakra stacks that you generated pre battle on the tp skill rather than forbidden chakra. 200 TP alone should be enough to let you reach your next invigorate and anything longer than that means other jobs will need a tp song anyhow.

a single regen of 200 TP on a progression fight isnt going to save you from 11 minutes or longer of high skill speed, so my point still stands.
everyone keep raving on about how monk is getting a skill to regen their own tp, but honestly i see it as one of the worst skills being added, its fundamentally flawed in that when you truely need it, you only get one use, but when you dont you can use it a lot more, on top of that its only 200 tp, maybe if it was something like 500 tp, if not more, i would be more inclined to think it was decent, that or not require a full 5 stacks and only use 1-3, or better yet remove the chakra requirement all together and just give it say a 3 or 4 min cd.

[Viridiana]

a single regen of 200 TP on a progression fight isnt going to save you from 11 minutes or longer of high skill speed, so my point still stands.

I dunno, it's basically 21 seconds of Paeon. I'm not sure how that'd be useless.

[Zamii]

I dunno, it's basically 21 seconds of Paeon. I'm not sure how that'd be useless.

21s of paeon is far more than 200 tp, its closer to 20-30s of extra time not needing paeon, at the most, and thats asuming your not stacking skill speed.

i hope im wrong and that the skill has some use, but as of right now with the info we have i just dont see it.

[Viridiana]

21s of paeon is far more than 200 tp, its closer to 20-30s of extra time not needing paeon, at the most, and thats asuming your not stacking skill speed.

Unless they've changed something or I've been vastly wrong for the last two years, 3 seconds of paeon is 30 TP. 21 seconds, then, would be 210 TP.

[Blackelement]

I dunno, it's basically 21 seconds of Paeon. I'm not sure how that'd be useless.

Well, to put it simply, to use that move to gain 200tp, you have to sacrifice 5 GCDs worth of damage, which is huge (140x5, 700 potency lost if you look at the lowest potency skill only) to gain that 200 tp (and if you consider whats most likely, tour looking at more of 1000 potency), thats very likely as big of a loss as a brd using paeon that long but the upside is only yourself getting that tp boost, not all your physical damage dealers.

If you, say, keep the 5 you built pre-battle for it instead, thats still a 400 potency loss (not using forbidden chakra instead) which isn't as bad, but still not optimal; if your using the current skill speed builds it would likely overlap with the brds paeon and not be needed anyway, and if your using a high skill speed build for the dot potencys, the ratio would have to be crazy high to make up for it currently, without considering the new skills which each have pretty high potencies tiping the balance that little bit further away from SkS, for example: (this is a rough example, as i dont have the numbers to back it up since we dont know how much more potent dots will be with sks)

If SkS became as potent as det is for dots (thus getting to that ~0.323 value det is at), the extra amount only effects dots so in general it'd still be ~0.17(i think thats what it is currently?) so you gotta ask yourself, at what point would extra SkS make up for the det and crit loss in the other areas (the two dots are only what? 20% of our damage?), and at that point in SkS, how much more tp usage would we have (and so how much would we need to get back) and if it turns out that we need to use at least 1 of the chakra tp returns per invig to last long enough, you have to then add in the 400 potency loss from the forbidden chakra, and the 1k loss for each subsiquent use or the amount of damage the brd loses by having to paeon early. Its hard to imagine the sks build would be worth it like this, so it'd have to be a considerable amount higher, probably up to a 0.4 rate on dots or more to make the SkS build worth it fully.

To me the tp regen skill is something they added in for parties that dont have brds, though why only mnk is getting it is still weird. It feels like either SE hasnt given us some info as to why exactly mnk needs this, SE is really trying to push SkS mnk (like back in 2.0), or their ninja hinting that the SkS change really will be that potent; since all other uses of it doesnt make sence, if a mob jumps so much you can build 5 chakra mid fight, your likely to have pleanty of tp to use it for forbidden chakra instead (e.g. titan).

[Viridiana]

Well, to put it simply, to use that move to gain 200tp, you have to sacrifice 5 GCDs worth of damage, which is huge (140x5, 700 potency lost if you look at the lowest potency skill only) to gain that 200 tp (and if you consider whats most likely, tour looking at more of 1000 potency), thats very likely as big of a loss as a brd using paeon that long but the upside is only yourself getting that tp boost, not all your physical damage dealers.

But your entire post assumes it's on the GCD. Which it may not be.

[Blackelement]

But your entire post assumes it's on the GCD. Which it may not be.

I thought Yoshi straight up said the build chakra ability WAS on the GCD? or has that been confirmed as a translation error or something? Thats the only reason i presumed the ability was on the GCD.

[ChaozK]

a single regen of 200 TP on a progression fight isnt going to save you from 11 minutes or longer of high skill speed, so my point still stands.

It really doesnt, if a fight takes 11 minutes the bard would have to sing paeon for himself/DRG/NIN/WAR/PLD no matter what. The 200 extra tp are meant to make sure that the MNK wouldnt be the only one who would run dry on TP on certain fights, where other jobs would not need a TP song.

Its not meant to make MNK self sufficient.