WHM Appreciation

[Raminax]

I am seriously turned on by the thought I will be able to spam holy one day :-D

You will be, considering the battle panties you'll be forced into when you learn Holy.

Or well... battle boxers as a guy.

[Lumis]

Only useful spell on SCH is scared soil.

Lustrate pales in comparison to Cure II and the skill is mainly useful for panic heals which healers should NEVER do or make up for someone screwing up.

SCH experiences an Identity crisis and forget's what Job they are and regresses to an inferior SMN.

You are so biased to WHM its funny. Lustrate pales in comparison to cure 2? Panic heals? Its CLUTCH. While a white mage sits there waiting for their GCD to come up, the scholar has already saved whoever might have taken damage with lustrate, and saved the player for what might have been a fatal mistake. Have you ever weaved Adlo + Embrace + a Lustrate all together? Huge mitigation and healing done there. Both healers are great, but please don't act like sch pales in comparison to healing.

[tjw]

firstsin would love to have a talk with Vlady, I'm sure.

[firstsin]

You are so biased to WHM its funny. Lustrate pales in comparison to cure 2? Panic heals? Its CLUTCH. While a white mage sits there waiting for their GCD to come up, the scholar has already saved whoever might have taken damage with lustrate, and saved the player for what might have been a fatal mistake. Have you ever weaved Adlo + Embrace + a Lustrate all together? Huge mitigation and healing done there. Both healers are great, but please don't act like sch pales in comparison to healing.

I have done as you said more times then I'd care to count but I have also done the same with DS+Cure 2. Lastly Lustrate is a waste of an Aetherflow stack. If anything Lustrates make SCH a lot more reactive healers then WHM.

I never said SCH pale incomparison to WHM but I did say Lustrate pale in comparison to Cure 2. My reason behind it is that it ONLY heals 25%. If the SCH is weak then yes Lustrate will shine as it will hide the players poor healing but if damage is dealt with correctly then Lustrate is not necessary. Only scenarios where it is useful is when someone screws up.

WHM are really are IMO the better healers. When played correctly and heals are timed correctly it shows how great it is. The same goes for SCH but the lack of raw healing power does hold the Job back. Best example I can give is when a lot of heal needs to go out, both single target and AoE. Something a WHM can handles with ease but a SCH must use up their stacks burn through a bunch of MP and when done their efficiency drops until their next Aetherflow.

Agree or not, I have played both class to the best of my ability and I enjoy healing. I still think WHM to be the stronger healer of the two. And yes I am biased in favour of WHM but that doesn't mean I don't know the benefits of having a SCH in the team.

firstsin would love to have a talk with Vlady, I'm sure.

Who's that?

And I love to debate regardless of weather I win or loose.

[Cynfael]

Looking at Lustrate as simply a panic heal is a mistake; while it does have obvious clutch utility, its primary benefit is to allow for calculated risks in gameplay. For example, you can choose to maintain DPS even while your tanks eats a buster knowing that you have a Lustrate available in case the incoming damage is critical; if the situation is under control, you use the stack for Energy Drain instead.

It also bears mentioning that Sacred Soil is one of the more underwhelming abilities in practice. It has an important place in progression when players are riding a narrow line between surviving major AoE or not, but beyond that and outside of end game it's very meh. Currently it works best as an insurance policy to help people survive mistakes that should probably kill them, like failing to DPS Sins properly in T13 or soaking Wild Charge incorrectly in T10.

[Velox]

Lastly Lustrate is a waste of an Aetherflow stack. [...]

My reason behind it is that it ONLY heals 25%. [...]

Only 25%? "Only?"

Cure II heals for about 2.2k on average at i130. A decently geared PLD is going to have 9-10k HP and a decently geared WAR is going to have 11-12k HP. Lustrate is going to heal the PLD for 2.5k and the WAR for 2.7k. This makes is superior to Cure II once iLevels get high enough. HP pools are going to climb even higher in 3.0 with iLevel 170 and beyond. The rate at which Lustrate restores HP is growing at a faster pace than Cure II due to it's auto-scaling nature and the inflated HP pools thanks to iLevel increase. If it remains unchanged in the future, it will become the most potent and important heal spell in the entire game by 4.0.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Two things I'd like to point out.

Only 25%? "Only?"

Cure II heals for about 2.2k on average at i130. A decently geared PLD is going to have 9-10k HP and a decently geared WAR is going to have 11-12k HP. Lustrate is going to heal the PLD for 2.5k and the WAR for 2.7k. This makes is superior to Cure II once iLevels get high enough. HP pools are going to climb even higher in 3.0 with iLevel 170 and beyond. The rate at which Lustrate restores HP is growing at a faster pace than Cure II due to it's auto-scaling nature and the inflated HP pools thanks to iLevel increase. If it remains unchanged in the future, it will become the most potent and important heal spell in the entire game by 4.0.

First of all: As Lustrate scales with tank HP, so do the more conventional healing spells. But rather than scaling on the target, they scale on the healer's own equipment. While scaling on target HP can yield better results, the contrary is also true.

Also: At i130 Cure II heals for 2.5k, not 2.2k. On the same tanks you mentioned that would be 2.5k on the paladin and 3k on the warrior. These numbers also get modified by any abilities that has an effect on healing output (20% on the warrior already accounted for in these numbers)

Secondly: Why is Lustrate and Cure II even being compared in the first place? While the purpose of Cure II and Lustrate coincide, the practical uses of either are completely different. If anything, compare it to Benediction. They're at least somewhat more comparable than Cure II and Lustrate. Even if there's a gigantic GCD gap.

[Ghishlain]

Only 25%? "Only?"


Cure II heals for about 2.2k on average at i130. A decently geared PLD is going to have 9-10k HP and a decently geared WAR is going to have 11-12k HP. Lustrate is going to heal the PLD for 2.5k and the WAR for 2.7k. This makes is superior to Cure II once iLevels get high enough. HP pools are going to climb even higher in 3.0 with iLevel 170 and beyond. The rate at which Lustrate restores HP is growing at a faster pace than Cure II due to it's auto-scaling nature and the inflated HP pools thanks to iLevel increase. If it remains unchanged in the future, it will become the most potent and important heal spell in the entire game by 4.0.

Will respectively disagree with your logic in terms of how Lustrate will outpace Cure II when it comes to ilvl increases.

Back in the i90 era, I was an i80-85 WHM doing a 1.6K Cure II on a i80-85 PLD with 7K HP. This is about 23%.
Now we're doing about 2.3K Cure IIs to a 9-10K HP PLD. That's also, about 23%.

The scaling seems just fine to me if they managed to maintain that similar scaling between the MND of a WHM and the VIT of the tanks. Until we see how these scales are changed in Heavensward, it'll be difficult gauge the differences. With that being said, if S-E continues their current trend of scaling, Lustrate will never outpace Cure II and vice versa.

Additionally, Lustrate is absolutely horrible for any non-tank target when compared to WHM cures. On a non-tank target, Cure I is either equal or slightly less efficient than a Lustrate. Thus, it's more efficient to save Lustrates for tanks if the situation allows for it (in some cases, you will need to use Lustrate as a clutch heal to save a DPS).

Also, I distinctly remember my Cure II's doing 2.5K at ~i130, not 2.3K. [Edit] I see Lyrica putting numbers down for 2.5K too, yay for my memory not being terrible.

[Talia_Hailwind]

Only 25%? "Only?"

Cure II heals for about 2.2k on average at i130. A decently geared PLD is going to have 9-10k HP and a decently geared WAR is going to have 11-12k HP. Lustrate is going to heal the PLD for 2.5k and the WAR for 2.7k. This makes is superior to Cure II once iLevels get high enough. HP pools are going to climb even higher in 3.0 with iLevel 170 and beyond. The rate at which Lustrate restores HP is growing at a faster pace than Cure II due to it's auto-scaling nature and the inflated HP pools thanks to iLevel increase. If it remains unchanged in the future, it will become the most potent and important heal spell in the entire game by 4.0.

Lustrate is a set amount though, theres so much more that can effect cure 2.

Wanna see what a cure 2 with presence of mind can do when the chips are down?
https://youtu.be/6Mb40TIEUIs?t=12m18s

(I do overheal abit here, but its ahk morn. My first time facing it infact.)
This is with ilvl 130 gear with a mix of DET, PIE and SS. NO CRIT Rate.

This is one of my fav moments.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

And the exact opposite can also happen :P
Ramuh's conductivity stacks
Anything that inflicts Infirmity
Blue fire in the Phoenix encounter

Lustrate is not affected by said effects. In these scenario's Lustrate would have an edge over Cure II.