Poll: Gear progression, horizontal or vertical?

[Firepower]

After 5 years (04-09) of FFXI and playing this since 1.0 and 2.0 alpha I can happily say I prefer the current Vertical system that FFXIV operates on, although I would prefer more options at the highest item level. I found FFXI's horizontal system and gear swapping a mess to my inventory. Plus the vertical progression has kept me far more interested in the game over FFXI's wait for Fafnir/Nidhogg every day for several years on the hope for an E.Abj body.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Hybrid /10char.

[Sapphic]

The horizontal progression is the only that makes skill be meaningful, with vertical it's all about bigger numbers.

The first part is a fallacy, the second applied/s to FFXI as much as vertical progression. A melee having capped haste and double/triple attack for the TP set and AP, relevant stat and WS accuracy/damage boost way outperformed someone who was in the same "level" of gear with suboptimal stats and bonuses on the gear. Just as a healer out performed when stacking the correct bonuses for each gear swap on macros for each ability, A +cure potency capped WHM for curing was able to use lower level cures thus reducing mana consumption massively, an enfeeble stacked RDM was more effective than one that was geared like a melee job.

Your idea of horizontel not having anything to do with the numerical output of the jobs and it being based on "skill" is a complete fabrication.

[Craiger]

GW2 has no "Horizontal System" Berserker gear is the best gear due to the kind of content it is. Horizontal System doesn't work without roles. So - no, its not a game we want.

Horizontal System shouldn't be balanced, it should be around the kind of playstyle you want. However this is a PvE game - Does Bahamut suddenly go on the forums and care about who has a bigger advantage in stats or crunched a bit better? Lol.

Anyways.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-some-ideas%21

This is a perfect example of fun Horizontal Progression gear.

I don't get what you mean... Are you saying that because Bahamut doesn't care about balancing, nobody would complain? We already see many complains about balancing, even though FFXIV is one of the most balanced MMOs out there.

Most people (at least the ones doing endgame raids) wouldn't play a certain job if they aren't producing the amount of DPS, for example, that it should do.

Like I said in my previous post, you would just find a set of gear that is good, then there would be no reason to get new gear in the game ever... Unless they completely change the game to fit with this style of gear. Can imagine myself being bored to death after a year, still wearing pretty much the same gear as when I started, and raiding only giving me some glamour...

[Jynx]

Horizontal Please.

Gearing in this game is dreadfully dull and sets everyone into a singular path when the game should be branching out giving many people many goals instead of just the allmighty highest Ilvl set. There will always be min/maxers you can't escape that even currently, but more variaty is always nice but wether the current game structure could support that I'm unsure.

They can hardly make the jobs unique unto themselves let alone the gear.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I don't get what you mean... Are you saying that because Bahamut doesn't care about balancing, nobody would complain? We already see many complains about balancing, even though FFXIV is one of the most balanced MMOs out there.

Most people (at least the ones doing endgame raids) wouldn't play a certain job if they aren't producing the amount of DPS, for example, that it should do.

Like I said in my previous post, you would just find a set of gear that is good, then there would be no reason to get new gear in the game ever... Unless they completely change the game to fit with this style of gear. Can imagine myself being bored to death after a year, still wearing pretty much the same gear as when I started, and raiding only giving me some glamour...

Making gear with effects everyone can acquire fixes that. There will not be "one best set" it will be trade-offs and play-styles.

If you have that-of an easy choice in picking gear then its already failed.

I don't see any balance concerns with the game, people can argue for hours for example about War/PLD but both jobs are good, both jobs can beat the game. The only job right now that isn't balanced, is for example SMN. It needs a boost. Its getting a boost.

[melflomil]

Left side vertical while right would be horizontal with materia slots. To get extra guaranteed materia slots we would have to do some difficult content.

[Allyrion]

For me, I feel like the people who want vertical progression are materialistic and the people who want horizontal progression are hoarders.

I probably just insulted everyone saying that, but I don't really like either.
I like stuff like the Relic where you get one piece. It can be upgraded and customized.
I don't think that system has to have as much RNG grind as the relic does, and it could be tied into drops from raids to enhance.

I don't want a bunch of crap in my bags for situation gearing and limited sense of progression.
I don't want gear to be completely disposable every patch cycle either.

I guess I'll favor the 'standard' vertical progression as it is.
I think we could use some more interesting stats though.

[Sylve]

Left side vertical while right would be horizontal with materia slots. To get extra guaranteed materia slots we would have to do some difficult content.

Except thats Vertical + Vertical.
You do the harder content to gain ilvls for your left side .. Then you do harder content for the Materia to raise the stats on your right side. You just accomplished exactly the same thing as straight vertical but added even MORE RNG to it.

Making gear with effects everyone can acquire fixes that. There will not be "one best set" it will be trade-offs and play-styles.

If you have that-of an easy choice in picking gear then its already failed.

I don't see any balance concerns with the game, people can argue for hours for example about War/PLD but both jobs are good, both jobs can beat the game. The only job right now that isn't balanced, is for example SMN. It needs a boost. Its getting a boost.

No, It makes everything worse.
Since now you have to have a specific set for specific encounters because certain bonuses make those encounters easier.

Horizontal Please.

Gearing in this game is dreadfully dull and sets everyone into a singular path when the game should be branching out giving many people many goals instead of just the allmighty highest Ilvl set. There will always be min/maxers you can't escape that even currently, but more variaty is always nice but wether the current game structure could support that I'm unsure.

They can hardly make the jobs unique unto themselves let alone the gear.

Gearing in this game does exactly what its supposed to, give us the stats we require to defeat bosses in steadily harder content.
An ilvl 100 BLM doing a proper Fire rotation will do way more DPS than an ilvl 130 BLM spamming Fire III/Blizzard III.

The current system gives you the means (Stats/ilvl) to defeat the bosses, but its your own knowledge of the Job you're playing along with reacting to the encounter itself that clears content.

[Craiger]

Making gear with effects everyone can acquire fixes that. There will not be "one best set" it will be trade-offs and play-styles.

If you have that-of an easy choice in picking gear then its already failed.

I don't see any balance concerns with the game, people can argue for hours for example about War/PLD but both jobs are good, both jobs can beat the game. The only job right now that isn't balanced, is SMN. It needs a boost.

Balancing is good right now(except SMN), but you said you didn't want it to be balanced...

Even if there are no one best set, you would still be able to get a set that you can beat the whole game with for years to come...

You say it would work because of trade-offs, but if I put together a good combination that I think is balanced for my play style, then there would be no need for me to do any more content in the game. If there were better options for me to get later down the line of the game, then it would go against the whole definition of "Horizontal Progression". (and don't come with the argument of doing all content because it's fun, because that only lasts a month at most)

It's not a fair comparison either, because the current model would be better if there were special effects like that on gear too... Ideally you would want more armor, but you would want that in a horizontal model too.

Current stats might not be the most interesting, but would people really care about those different effects? Most people I see don't care about optimizing their gear, so why would people do it with a horizontal model? For there to be effects interesting enough for people to care, they would have to completely overhaul the whole game pretty much.

For me, I feel like the people who want vertical progression are materialistic and the people who want horizontal progression are hoarders.

I probably just insulted everyone saying that, but I don't really like either.
I like stuff like the Relic where you get one piece. It can be upgraded and customized.
I don't think that system has to have as much RNG grind as the relic does, and it could be tied into drops from raids to enhance.

I don't want a bunch of crap in my bags for situation gearing and limited sense of progression.
I don't want gear to be completely disposable every patch cycle either.

I guess I'll favor the 'standard' vertical progression as it is.
I think we could use some more interesting stats though.

This^