The Ninja Superthread

[silentwindfr]

check the number of input of skill we need to do. and clearly if you do only huton+123 you will never reach 600 dps....

same do Fuma shuriken is a huge loose of dps, even if it save the trouble of the lag, (what it's less important on raiton) it's still far from the cycle of the ninja. monk cycle is a repetition based on the dot timer, you will mover from side to back and change the combo only when the timer of the dot is about to finish. outside this, they have the most stable cycle of the whole dps.

other point even if we scraps the last stroke of the cycle until Huton refresh, you still have a 40+ second cycle wth a ton of input. i play dragoon, ninja and monk, i have all of them to max level and did spend a fair amount of time on each (more on monk i admit) and ninja have the most complex and unstable cycle of the 3. the fact that pretending to get a 600 dps from huton + 123 is simply idiot and false.

the cycle of the monk is quite fluid (tank the stance system) the only hard part is the positioning.
the cycle of the dragoon is long in the duration, the only part? none, dragoon is by far the either jobs to play as dps.
the cycle of the ninja is not stable nor fluid, mostly because of some error of conception that lead to a situation where the cycle is a mess. ninjutsu with the mudra lag are not something that fit into the cycle like pressing a button for a out gcd skill. it recquire 3-4 skill to be used correctly and can fail and punish the player messing around.

do the dragoon or monk have this sort of situation where they are not getting the skill wanted? nope, the only difficulty for the monk are the phase where they loose them self buff, for the dragoon is more because player are not attentive and use jump at the wrong moment. (even if i feel they need to improve the mechanic a bit)

soo far actually the top dps is the Monk not the ninja and the ninja is not as simple than a looooot of player try to say.

ps: 600 dps on a short duration is not really 600 dps... because if that was the case a black mage will be around 2000+ dps with huge aoe phase in some area...

[Houston009]

seriously monk are still the best dps out, if you are beaten by a ninja, you need to train more dude!

Do you have proof, or is this just from your own experiences?

[Odowla]

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I did like 15 runs of t11, going literally 123 123 123 123 with trick attack, cooldowns, and Fuma Shuriken ONLY, with the warrior maintaining Dancing edge, and finished all of them at 590+. in the same situation, doing only side rotation only, a monk does 500. That's the comparison i'm making in favor of positionals for a ninja, considering you could stand at the back the WHOLE fight, and do 20% more than a monk.. Yeah that's pretty strong.

And no MNK isnt #1 DPS. They're all close to equal, but a ninja can do 700 on a dummy with a warrior providing the debuff - the others don't even get close.

[Pluvia]

I did like 15 runs of t11, going literally 123 123 123 123 with trick attack, cooldowns, and Fuma Shuriken ONLY, with the warrior maintaining Dancing edge, and finished all of them at 590+. in the same situation, doing only side rotation only, a monk does 500. That's the comparison i'm making in favor of positionals for a ninja, considering you could stand at the back the WHOLE fight, and do 20% more than a monk.. Yeah that's pretty strong.

And no MNK isnt #1 DPS. They're all close to equal, but a ninja can do 700 on a dummy with a warrior providing the debuff - the others don't even get close.

I feel like we'd have a lot less issues on these forums if they would just remove dummies. (not saying Odowla does) Whole bunch of people look at the dummy parses and gets all in an uproar all of those pictures and videos of god mode dps for nin are so cherry picked it makes me laugh
I agree with your original post though no we have no clue and no even if they add 1 or 2 additional positionals I just question their choices in utility I guess if your tank is bad in a pug it will be useful but i have never I mean never pulled off a good tank on pull with my opener.

[Odowla]

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Some of them are, but there are a few ninjas who cna do them consistently - For example, Mimo Ko, on my server, can do 660s pretty consistently, and sometimes do 680's. But, for the most part, the runs and posts you see are nit picked and are the "perfect" run. Its why you see a lot of monks saying omg this class sucks now. No, they don't suck, just people don't care to grind out the crit run on a class we already know is strong.

I just don't see the point in bitching about something to bring the job a bit more in line with the others.

[Pluvia]

Some of them are, but there are a few ninjas who cna do them consistently - For example, Mimo Ko, on my server, can do 660s pretty consistently, and sometimes do 680's. But, for the most part, the runs and posts you see are nit picked and are the "perfect" run. Its why you see a lot of monks saying omg this class sucks now. No, they don't suck, just people don't care to grind out the crit run on a class we already know is strong.

I just don't see the point in bitching about something to bring the job a bit more in line with the others.

Oh no doubt i was just hoping they would do something else like i said I'd prefer them to find a better way then just taking the easy way and adding positionals

[Viridiana]

I guess if your tank is bad in a pug it will be useful but i have never I mean never pulled off a good tank on pull with my opener.

You keep going on like there are zero situations where this can be a useful skill. I can think of a number of situations where I could use it, even if there are other things you could do to work nearly as well.

Add spawn that the tank needs snap aggro on? You could rely on just RoH, y'know, if they have it pre-queued for the combo. And if they get to the add before you do. And if their weapon isn't 15-20 ilvls below yours.

One enemy out of a group sitting on the healer instead of on the tank? Good thing you can help convince it to change targets.

Better yet, how about an add that the DPS are expected to pick up and tank? Rather than holding back for a second so that someone can establish aggro (or going all out to get it yourself), you can help solidify their lead and not have the mob playing ping-pong through the DPS (and/or healers).

Or any time there's a tank swap. Rather than having the outgoing tank stand around and try not to retake aggro, you could use this ability to solidify the incoming tank's lead. Or did the WAR use BB right after the PLD did Provoke+RoH? That's okay, because RoH+AE > BB.

Basically, any time you find yourself saying that you should give the other person even 1 second to get aggro, you could be using this utility.

[Pluvia]

You keep going on like there are zero situations where this can be a useful skill. I can think of a number of situations where I could use it, even if there are other things you could do to work nearly as well.

Add spawn that the tank needs snap aggro on? You could rely on just RoH, y'know, if they have it pre-queued for the combo. And if they get to the add before you do. And if their weapon isn't 15-20 ilvls below yours.

One enemy out of a group sitting on the healer instead of on the tank? Good thing you can help convince it to change targets.

Better yet, how about an add that the DPS are expected to pick up and tank? Rather than holding back for a second so that someone can establish aggro (or going all out to get it yourself), you can help solidify their lead and not have the mob playing ping-pong through the DPS (and/or healers).

Or any time there's a tank swap. Rather than having the outgoing tank stand around and try not to retake aggro, you could use this ability to solidify the incoming tank's lead. Or did the WAR use BB right after the PLD did Provoke+RoH? That's okay, because RoH+AE > BB.

Basically, any time you find yourself saying that you should give the other person even 1 second to get aggro, you could be using this utility.

I'm sorry you're correct not totally useless just a higher level of goads uselessness.

[Viridiana]

I'm sorry you're correct not totally useless just a higher level of goads uselessness.

If you think Goad is useless I'm done trying to reason with you. >_>

[Pluvia]

If you think Goad is useless I'm done trying to reason with you. >_>

Never said goad was completely useless its just 1/4 as effective now as it was on release and may become less effective depending how things turn out with monks