The Ninja Superthread

[Noelzzz]

To be honest, i think Ninja will be fine in HS, the only issue will have is mudra delay but that won't change even with europeans located servers simply because is bad design. Ninja had to be part of the new jobs without classes, casting ninjutsus as spells, focusing more on that, we have instead a thief with ninjutsu. With Summoner one of the worst class design in gaming history

[Dervy]

Silentwindfr, you keep mentioning how Aeolian Edge won't be used as much. Alright, fine. That's understandable, I think we can all agree here that this is the case. But to then say that it's somewhat going to kill the Ninja? Per Huton, you're fitting in around 3 Aeolian Edges. You'll be changing 1/3 of those for a new skill which refreshes Huton. Time for some Napkin Math.


(320*3)/70 = 13.71428571428571 PPS for Aeolian Edge

360/70 = 5.142857142857143 PPS for Raiton

In order for the new "Rotation" to be less effective, x2 Aeolian Edge + x1 Huton refresh needs to be 13.71428571428571 - 5.142857142857143 = 8.571428571428567 or more, compared to the difference between x3 Aeolian Edges 13.7 PPS, for you to see any beneficial gains. You have to remember that instead of a Huton, we're now using an additional Raiton to replace the Ninjitsu cast.

8.571428571428567 * 70 = 599.9999999999997

So as long as you're dealing more than 600 Potency in the same 70s breakdown, it's a potency Increase. If we assume that the Huton Refresh has a Potency of 220...

(320+320+220)/70 = 12.28571428571429 + 5.142857142857143 (Ration PPS) = 17.42857142857143. That's about *1.5 the PPS of just doing x3 Aeolian Edge.

[Zamii]

snip

on top of all this, theres the fact that you no longer have to do an aditional 3 part ninjutsu every 60-70s, this on its own will net you multiple GCD over the course of a full fight.

[spelley]

Just how damning is having bad ping? My ping ranges anywhere from 100-300 depending on the day. I'd love to try out a ROG/NIN but am concerned I will basically flub due to it. My aim is for the more "casual" content, probably not for anything above casual 24-man raids, don't do coils or such generally speaking (and would use my DRG/SCH if I was going to). Should I still consider NIN?

[Allyrion]

Just how damning is having bad ping? My ping ranges anywhere from 100-300 depending on the day. I'd love to try out a ROG/NIN but am concerned I will basically flub due to it. My aim is for the more "casual" content, probably not for anything above casual 24-man raids, don't do coils or such generally speaking (and would use my DRG/SCH if I was going to). Should I still consider NIN?

Honestly, if you're not going to be hardcore, it'll end up a matter of feeling.

With lag, you have to slow down for your ninjutsu. It breaks the flow of the rotation a little bit and some people don't like it because they know if they had a better connection, then they'd already be doing their next attack.
You can perform the rotation and do well with lag. Maybe someone else can do better but you're not talking about Coil or anything.

So yea, having bad ping isn't a NIN death sentence. You'll just have to slow down sometimes when the mudra take a while to activate.

[Arkenne]

Ping for NIN

0~75 > you'll be awesome and have all the girls for yourself.
76~115 > You will still be awesome, but the girls will not die for you. Raiton might start clipping on your GCD
116~150 > Shuriken will definitely be better than Raiton on melee range.
151~300 > Huton and Suiton will be so annoying to the point you'll hate casting Huton and think twice about using Suiton... Raiton will be a definite DPS loss on melee range.
300~500 > You will not even try to use any ninjutsu outside Huton and it will take you about 3~5 seconds. Even Shuriken might start clipping on your GCD.
500+ > don't try it... or any melee at that.

[Zamii]

0~75 > you'll be awesome and have all the girls for yourself.
76~115 > You will still be awesome, but the girls will not die for you. Raiton might start clipping on your GCD
116~150 > Shuriken will definitely be better than Raiton on melee range.
151~300 > Huton and Suiton will be so annoying to the point you'll hate casting Huton and think twice about using Suiton... Raiton will be a definite DPS loss on melee range.
300~500 > You will not even try to use any ninjutsu outside Huton and it will take you about 3~5 seconds. Even Shuriken might start clipping on your GCD.
500+ don't try it...

was still better to use suiton and fuma at 350-400 ping when i was playing on an an NA world, though even fuma started clipping into GCD, and suiton when you think about it is really like 700-800 potency when you add in trick attack, more if you include everyone elses dps increase.

[Dante_V]

I've been trying to explain this to this guy for like the last week and he just refuses to acknowledge it. He seems more hell bent in doing aeolian edge just for the sake of doing aeolian edge honestly. Let's not forget that the Huton extension would be voluntary so if he is absolutely against it he wouldn't be required to do it (although not doing it would effectively need his own dps)

He also completely ignores that having a Huton weapon skill extension is a means to deal with Mudra lag to a degree even if it is indirect in its own right.

On top of that he keeps labeling a positional requirement as a nerf when every single positional in the game adds a bonus to dps.

[Viridiana]

I've been trying to explain this to this guy for like the last week and he just refuses to acknowledge it. He seems more hell bent in doing aeolian edge just for the sake of doing aeolian edge honestly. Let's not forget that the Huton extension would be voluntary so if he is absolutely against it he wouldn't be required to do it (although not doing it would effectively need his own dps)

He also completely ignores that having a Huton weapon skill extension is a means to deal with Mudra lag to a degree even if it is indirect in its own right.

On top of that he keeps labeling a positional requirement as a nerf when every single positional in the game adds a bonus to dps.

Not gonna lie, I put him on my ignore list because his every post since LL XXI has been overwhelmingly negative. >_>

[Dante_V]

let me explain a little further then, accuracy requirements are brocken up into 3 sections for each boss, frontal, flank and rear.
the reasoning behind monk and dragoon using the flank accuracy is because well you need to hit your flank positionals.
casting classes however are considered to always hit the rear of a target, this allows them to use lower accuracy, with the exception of summoner which has diminished values toward its pet.

what makes ninja different to the other melle is it doesnt have any flank positionals (currently) which means you can position yourself behind the boss at all times without a lose in dps due to missing positionals, this then allows you to use the rear, or BLM, accuracy cap.

You should never be using the rear accuracy cap as many mechanics and strategies for the current raid content will require you to be on the flank. There is a reason why melee dps are using flank acc as a basis for best in slot.