The Ninja Superthread

[Dervy]

If you put everything that we've collected so far about the Dragoon and Ninja, you'd be naive to say "thats all there is". Both jobs have something entirely missing from their "new rotstion". Too many loose holes, especially regarding DoT timings. Not enough information about how a majority of our skills also operate.

Wait until the next live letter between the 14th - 17th before we start our doom and gloom posts .

[Allyrion]

Wait until the next live letter between the 14th - 17th before we start our doom and gloom posts .

It's a bit late to say that.
That dam broke a while ago. The Doom flood has been flowing since the last live letter.
Withholding judgement is a bit too much to ask for most forums.

[Shamirah]

You do realise guys that the new ability that let you use the same spell thrice and the fact that skill speed increases dot damage is like a massive buff to your class... right ?

[Akashiya]

You do realise guys that the new ability that let you use the same spell thrice and the fact that skill speed increases dot damage is like a massive buff to your class... right ?

2 things first it doesn't let you use a wpn skill 3 times. here is the translation. Additionally, there will also be a new weaponskill which hits three times.
Second the skillspeed change affects everyone.

[Odowla]

2 things first it doesn't let you use a wpn skill 3 times. here is the translation. Additionally, there will also be a new weaponskill which hits three times.
Second the skillspeed change affects everyone.

No, I'm pretty sure its an ability that makes, for example, an aoelian edge hit 3 times.

I've seen that version of the translation more than the one you posted.

[jObEfiSH]

I somehow doubt that the new move will completely reset huton's duration completely.

Just a feeling though.

It would be ridiculous if it doesn't totally refresh the duration of Huton though. Since it is the weapon skill at the end of the three hit Combo if it doesn't totally refresh the Huton duration you would basically never ever be able to keep up your slash damage buff and use Aeolian edge, you would basically need to be constantly using that combo which would be ridiculous. Even with it refreshing the whole Huton duration you will still not be getting that many 3 step Aeolian edge combos off while also doing the 3 step debuff combo.

[Allyrion]

Refresh and extend imply different things. Multiple sources have said extend and I haven't seen any say refresh.
It may clash too much with Aeolian Edge depending on how long an extension it gives.

If it's long enough, it might not clash that much with Aeolian Edge so I hope that's the case.
I prefer extension because refreshing is less flexible. Refreshing means you only refresh when it's close to falling off while extending may allow you to build up a Fuuton duration and not worry about it for a burst phase.

Regardless, I'm also not stoked it's another Gust Slash Finisher. Mostly because it makes Spinning Edge > Gust Slash a bit repetitive.
That said, you only have commitment at the end of a your combo instead of the start which makes that decision more dynamic rather than 6-8s time intervals.
I think that's what makes up for our assymetrical debuff/dotting.

I was hoping, though, that our Fuuton extension would follow Shadowing (as many others seemed to as well) and extended Fuuton for 18 seconds or so (matching Shadowfang).
That would be a bit like the DRG's debuff combo (Chaos Thrust 30s, Disembowel 30s) but shorter.

But that doesn't seem to be the case.
I get the impression they want NIN to not rely on preset combos and timings like the other two melee.
Instead, we have to consider the priority of abilities more dynamically and adapt to it.
Not sure I prefer that over the rhythm and muscle memory you can have with MNK and DRG, but it's interesting in its own way.
I think it's a mistake to call it messy, since it seems by design and they do seem to design around it by making our combos branch off (so it's easier to adapt in a given situation).

No, I'm pretty sure its an ability that makes, for example, an aoelian edge hit 3 times.

I've seen that version of the translation more than the one you posted.

The thing is, gamewatch's interview said it was an ability to let the next one hit 3 times but then corrected it.
I believe this was corrected in the original Japanese as well.
It was corrected to say we're getting an new weaponskill that hits 3 times.

Famitsu's says

a new three-stage physical attack skill known as "Mugen Sandan" will be added

A bit more ambiguous but still more fitting to the correction.

Both those articles contradict one another about Issou (Famitsu says it buffs a single weaponskill, Gamewatch describes it more as a buff with a duration) so it's all taken with a grain of salt.
But at least they don't contradict one another for Mugen Sandan, so I'm inclined to believe Gamewatch wouldn't have corrected it just for it to turn out to be the original.

Unless you have a interview source that still directly contradicts this.
So I can fully trash all their information.

[silentwindfr]

indeed we lacking a looot of information for have a complet picture, however, depending of some point it can either be passable or simply be broken.
- if it's a refresh of huton we only need it every 60 second. it will have little impact over the skill usage.
- if it's an extension of duration, depending of how much it extend... it can make Aeolian Edge irrevelant and not usable.

i have already said that the trouble was not only the position of the combo skill, but the number of action recquired for maintain debuff and buff.
- mutilate allows you to use about 14 skill before you need to refresh it. it cost only 1 skill for use it.
- Shadow fang allows you to use about 7 skill before you need to refresh it. it cost 2 skill for use it.
- Dancing edge allows you to use about 7 skill before you need to refresh it. it cost 3 skill for use it.
- the new skill it cost 3 skill for use it and we don't know it duration

i explain more, each debuff have a duration from 18 to 30 second. we are taking a generous GCD to 2 second (what it's not the case in normal time for most of us) and it give us how many skill we can do in the same time of the duration of the skill. the cost come from the number of skill used for recast it. here come the trouble...
if you look at it, dancing edge and shadow fang actually allows 4 skill to be used with them. if the extension/refresh give something inferior at 20 second.... we can't use Aeolian edge. since it will leave us with 1 skill free.

let's make it more clear.
for a duration of 30 second, you do have a total of 15 action possible:
mutilate -> spinning edge -> gust slash -> dancing edge -> spining edge -> shadow fang -> spinning edge -> gust slash -> new skill -> empty windows for a skill -> spinning edge -> gusts slash -> dancing edge -> mutilate

indeed if we have a warrior that put Storm's eye for us, we can take out dancing edge for use aeolian edge, but seriously depend of another jobs for use our best finisher, for a dps.... it's bad. if we look at it, we will looose dps from this choice to put the new skill behind Gust slash, indeed it's if the skill is only an extension inferior a 20 second. and like said i did take a generous 2 sec of gcd... meaning this empty windows for a skill can disappear because of the GCD.

it's a lot of if, but from what i see, it's the skill was not think in the big picture... we are the only melee jobs that need to work a cycle that much messy, more bad, they did decide to add positional... and i haven't take in account the mudra lag... i got headache when i try to figure how it will work.

ps: but i do hope, for make us this much complicate, that the ninja, will be the top dps.... or else...

The thing is, gamewatch's interview said it was an ability to let the next one hit 3 times but then corrected it.
I believe this was corrected in the original Japanese as well.
It was corrected to say we're getting an new weaponskill that hits 3 times.

Famitsu's says

A bit more ambiguous but still more fitting to the correction.

Both those articles contradict one another about Issou (Famitsu says it buffs a single weaponskill, Gamewatch describes it more as a buff with a duration) so it's all taken with a grain of salt.
But at least they don't contradict one another for Mugen Sandan, so I'm inclined to believe Gamewatch wouldn't have corrected it just for it to turn out to be the original.

Unless you have a interview source that still directly contradicts this.
So I can fully trash all their information.

i'm still amazed by the non reaction of the staff, the information about the ninja are a mess and they haven't give us a clarification about all the information it was simple to do... soo far they did leave the ninja community in the shadow and treat us pretty badly.

ps: maybe they think we can wait to see it by ourself... or maybe they are not confident in them choice of change. we are one of the community quite unhappy with the change bring by the expansion... and we are either ignored or treated rudely.

[Arkenne]

Wait until the next live letter between the 14th - 17th before we start our doom and gloom posts .

Yep, we do realize its a tad too soon since there is so much unknown and what is known is whatever but clear. But speculating is all we have right now D:!!

9 more days just to hear the real info... 14 more to actually play... Im gonna die waiting!!! Rather be gloom now since once HW gets out I'll be too busy playing :v!!

[Arkenne]

So guys, just to keep the talk going a bit more, how would it play in your heads if the way to extend Huton were the weaponskills positionals.
As in, suppose the positionals are implemented, but they dont affect the weaponskills' potency at all, but each one gives 1 second extra Huton.

We could literally extend Huton's duration by about another minute if we play it correctly that way... to me it sounds interesting at least...