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  1. #401
    Player
    Crysten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    384
    Character
    Crysten Kimura
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Krylo View Post
    Not that surprising considering how often I've been insulted for taking lead in anything where people don't pull immediately. Ranging from people arguing about which strat is best to 'I'm i130, how hard can it be? Lol scrub'. And admitting you're new is worse. "Oh great, a new person, guess we'll be wiping all day" isn't uncommon to hear. People say they want new folks to say they're new, but then half the time when you do you get people insulting you or leaving instance on anything mildly difficult (ex primals, for instance). Granted, half the time you get really supportive groups, too, but, I mean, it's not hard to see why people might not want to talk.
    Better to open your mouth, ask a question and look a fool for a moment than to keep your mouth shut and prove everyone's assumptions right.

    I believe that asking questions and admitting one's failures is a sign of intelligence and strength; more people need to do this.

    You know what they say though; You can lead a horse to pasture, but you can't make it drink.
    (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by AxlStream View Post
    You're good at the game? You're an elitist.
    You're using a parser to better yourself? Elitist.
    You're making suggestions on how someone can improve themselves? E l i t i s t.

    You wipe a farm party constantly but you're having fun playing your way. Nah you're fine dude.

    This community astounds me at times.

  2. #402
    Player
    Krylo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    272
    Character
    Khaela Alteri
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Crysten View Post
    Snip.
    Agreed, but just blaming people for being non-social/quiet while ignoring that the community, in many cases, beats that silence into new players who get derided when they try to speak from 1-50 is a bit short-sighted and does little to actually address the problem. The community in game is better than, say, WoW, but still has a lot of room for improvement.
    (1)

  3. #403
    Player
    Crysten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    384
    Character
    Crysten Kimura
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Krylo View Post
    Agreed, but just blaming people for being non-social/quiet while ignoring that the community, in many cases, beats that silence into new players who get derided when they try to speak from 1-50 is a bit short-sighted and does little to actually address the problem. The community in game is better than, say, WoW, but still has a lot of room for improvement.
    Honestly, I feel that's a biased opinion. New players are not exempt from being assholes themselves.

    I have met some genuinely fantastic new players who have been information sponges; genuinely thankful and appreciative for all the help given whether it be on bosses, or with advice on rotations.

    Unfortunately in my own experience, for every one of those people, I've had two who call me an elitist prick for having the gall to point out a strategy/mistake. Experiences like this only serve to beat the current stigma into those who can't stand helping. It's a vicious circle.

    Both sides, in my opinion, are equally to blame for this. To square the blame entirely on those who persecute new players is actually pretty unfair.
    (2)
    Last edited by Crysten; 05-14-2015 at 07:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by AxlStream View Post
    You're good at the game? You're an elitist.
    You're using a parser to better yourself? Elitist.
    You're making suggestions on how someone can improve themselves? E l i t i s t.

    You wipe a farm party constantly but you're having fun playing your way. Nah you're fine dude.

    This community astounds me at times.

  4. #404
    Player
    Sapphic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Character
    Sapphic Meow
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Crysten View Post
    Honestly, I feel that's a biased opinion. New players are not exempt from being assholes themselves.
    100% agree. I'ts not too hard to see why will not bother trying to help when the last few runs you did all you recieved was trash talking or just silence.

    I use a simple method, if someone says they are new, they are willing and open to advice and help. If someone doesn't, they aren't. If they can't take the couple of seconds to say they are new when they are, why should I take time to explain to them anyways?
    (3)

  5. #405
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3,514
    Character
    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphic View Post
    ..
    Terrible experience maybe? I've seen newbies who said they were new and often get chewed out on it, even in heroic roulette. It's a big sea out there with a lot of fishies and tuna, what matters is what you do with it.

    I mean just from a post in this very topic here, he apparently left as soon as someone said " We don't know the fight." Maybe the conversation carried out logner than that and he didn't include or, or maybe not. There's two perspectives to that and maybe they were going over it in FC; he just didn't stick around long enough to actually see more of the conversation. Or maybe he did and that was literally the conversation.
    (2)

  6. #406
    Player
    Cynfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,164
    Character
    Sacrilege Moonshadow
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    This nerf went perhaps a tad bit too far. Got Steps for roulette and killed Vishap on the first try,, at the 3rd gate, and without anyone having landed a single dragonkiller.

    I don't get up in arms over nerfs of main story content, but I also hadn't been expecting DK to become a completely optional mechanic.
    (0)

  7. #407
    Player
    Sapphic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Character
    Sapphic Meow
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RiceisNice View Post
    Terrible experience maybe? I've seen newbies who said they were new and often get chewed out on it, even in heroic roulette. It's a big sea out there with a lot of fishies and tuna, what matters is what you do with it.
    Players state that vet players should teach newer players. How else will they know someone is new? By waiting for them to fail on a mechanic that could have been easily explained? How well do you think that would go?

    Also, compared to those who got help and advice as opposed to those who didn't. In normal dungeons those who, in my opinion, state they are new are helped. Mechanics are easily explained. Only time I've seen negativity is when new players join difficult content with zero idea of what to do and say nothing or first thing they say is "I'm new, what do I do?" when they could have helped themselves and read up on the fight to have some knowledge before instead of expecting everyone else to type out a guide in party chat. Or when they mess up on something which, if they had stated they were new, could have been explained in a single sentace and prevented it. Example: don't AE the adds on first boss in Tam Tara HM.

    Theres a huge difference for difficult content in "I'm new, what do I do?" and "I'm new but I read the strats, couple of things I'm not clear on tho." The second one made an effort to help the party succeed with the information available, The former, couldn't be bothered and expects everyone else to make the effort for their sole benefit. The first ones, I won't help. The second ones? Of course because they made an effort to help themselves too.

    Exactly why I don't do content with any semblance of a challenge in DF.
    (2)
    Last edited by Sapphic; 05-14-2015 at 07:37 AM.

  8. #408
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3,514
    Character
    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphic View Post
    ....
    My examples were more for heroic dungeons or lets even say SoF though. I mean when it comes to coil, I'd understand having to put at least some sort of effort into knowing the fight. I don't even remember the last time I had to (or anyone for the matter) research a dungeon or MS fights for strategy, let alone expecting them to do so.
    (1)

  9. #409
    Player
    Sapphic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Character
    Sapphic Meow
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RiceisNice View Post
    My examples were more for heroic dungeons or lets even say SoF though. I mean when it comes to coil, I'd understand having to put at least some sort of effort into knowing the fight. I don't even remember the last time I had to (or anyone for the matter) research a dungeon or MS fights for strategy, let alone expecting them to do so.
    Agree there are some socially inept people out there, but from 1000s of dungeons they are the minority on the EU data center (to be honest I hear more of that kind of person from players on the US data centres). We generally remember negative events more clearly than positive. Run a 1000 dungeons, get abused and kicked on the 1001st, that is the one which sticks out most which puts a emotional bias on the so called reports of excessive bad behaiviour in the DF. Not to mention people do so love to exagerate to prove their point :P
    (0)

  10. #410
    Player
    TouchandFeel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,835
    Character
    Vespereaux Vaillantes
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 91
    @Riceisnice

    Just wanted to point out that HM stands for hard mode in this game not heroic.
    Heroic dungeons is more WoW terminology.

    Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just noticed you've been using the "heroic dungeons" label a lot in recent posts.
    (0)

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