The Monk Temple Reborn

[MrCookTM]

I think the main thing that truedragon does not (want to?) understand is that det being weighted with 0,5 does not increase dps, but is the reason why mnk's dps is where it is. How I understand his statements, he thinks a mnk with the 'old' stat weights averages at 600+ dps, so with 0,5 mnk should average at 700+ dps with a det build, while in fact the 'old' weights have always been wrong (at least at i130).

Also the difference in calculated str between a det focused set and one that has less det isn't 'that' high, even with det weighted at 0,5. I tried to make an example between the current commonly accepted non-crafted BiS and the most det ignoring (lol) non-crafted set I could come up with while still maintening T13 acc and without sacrificing ilvl/main stat. The two sets are as follows:

BiS: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PUVM

Det-ignoring 130 set: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/QLYJ

Now lets use the following weights:

Crit: 0,210 (Sunny's calulation)
Skillspeed: 0,196 (Sunny's calculation)
Determination: 0,500 (Dervy's estimation)

When taking a look at both sets we will see that while the det on set 2 is significantly lower, we will gain a crapton of skillspeed and crit. The difference in calculated str between both sets is 37,068. Sounds like quite alot, but the difference is not that huge (bad example because bad example, but just unequip your DW gloves and make a parse, and compare it to a fully equipped parse, the gloves have around 38 weighted str).

Also keep in mind that these two sets are two extremes. No one will ever use a set as crappy as the second set I posted, most people with sets that are not BiS yet are either have full poetics because not running coil or will just be missing a few pieces because bad rng, in both cases the difference between the det-focused BiS and their set will be considerably lower than the ~37 str it just made out with these two sets.

[PROBOUND]

@TrueDragon - Can you please make a video Guide? I'm sure there's much you could teach us.

[siverstorm]

The last couple of pages of this thread have been a (edit: hilarious) train wreck, holy crap.

[Truedragon]

You're talking to the person who MADE the 2.2, 2.4, 2.45 stat-weights and most recently, the latest BRD weights when I collaborated with MrYaah AND DET finding stat-weights. I was also actively around when EasyModeX made the 2.0, 2.1 weights. The same weights you use in your all-mighty ariyala gear solver (which is subpar) you used to gear up. They're from me. The ONLY Job I've not worked on is the BLM.

I know what I'm talking about.

I dont use airyala. Thats a tool for scrubs lol. But I appreciate your work.

[Truedragon]

I think the main thing that truedragon does not (want to?) understand is that det being weighted with 0,5 does not increase dps, but is the reason why mnk's dps is where it is. How I understand his statements, he thinks a mnk with the 'old' stat weights averages at 600+ dps, so with 0,5 mnk should average at 700+ dps with a det build, while in fact the 'old' weights have always been wrong (at least at i130).

Also the difference in calculated str between a det focused set and one that has less det isn't 'that' high, even with det weighted at 0,5. I tried to make an example between the current commonly accepted non-crafted BiS and the most det ignoring (lol) non-crafted set I could come up with while still maintening T13 acc and without sacrificing ilvl/main stat. The two sets are as follows:

BiS: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PUVM


Det-ignoring 130 set: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/QLYJ

Now lets use the following weights:

Crit: 0,210 (Sunny's calulation)
Skillspeed: 0,196 (Sunny's calculation)
Determination: 0,500 (Dervy's estimation)

When taking a look at both sets we will see that while the det on set 2 is significantly lower, we will gain a crapton of skillspeed and crit. The difference in calculated str between both sets is 37,068. Sounds like quite alot, but the difference is not that huge (bad example because bad example, but just unequip your DW gloves and make a parse, and compare it to a fully equipped parse, the gloves have around 38 weighted str).


Also keep in mind that these two sets are two extremes. No one will ever use a set as crappy as the second set I posted, most people with sets that are not BiS yet are either have full poetics because not running coil or will just be missing a few pieces because bad rng, in both cases the difference between the det-focused BiS and their set will be considerably lower than the ~37 str it just made out with these two sets.

Ok, several things.
1) that is not a BiS set. Not even close.
2) I dont think. I know. I can do 600 with 1 hand eating chips. And I dont have 90000 det either.

So bottomline is this. For DET to be truly worth that high, I need to see some high dps. stat weights not used for dps? Ok, then lets not even use stat weights at all. Dont even stack det at all if you cant even see a dps increase. Get real.

[Viridiana]

Ok, several things.

1) You're a liar
2) You're bad at logic and/or math

Did I get the things right? No?

Seriously, though, I like how you ignored the entire second half of his sentence, which is where you "think. . .with .5 mnk should average at 700+dps". That's the part you think (correct me if I'm wrong, Cook).

[Crescent_Dusk]

Since when has this thread been the truedragon daily show and all that want to flame him? Can we start being better at ignoring people and move back to more productive things? I know people like a spectacle and an opportunity to flame but let's drop it already please.

[Truedragon]

1) You're a liar
2) You're bad at logic and/or math

Did I get the things right? No?

Seriously, though, I like how you ignored the entire second half of his sentence, which is where you "think. . .with .5 mnk should average at 700+dps". That's the part you think (correct me if I'm wrong, Cook).

And I call you a liar.
Drop your attitude. I dont need to explain things to a bard with ilvl80 monk. Things have already been explained. 650 dps is a solid dps for good end game monks. I aint talking about bad monks either. So your whole 600 dps aint gonna fly. It aint my problem if you have trouble hitting 600. Up your gear, or up your rotation.
650 + effect of DET = asking for 730 is too much? Or maybe simply admit that all that DET stacking didnt jack up your dps at all

[PROBOUND]

And I call you a liar.
Drop your attitude. I dont need to explain things to a bard with ilvl80 monk. Things have already been explained. 650 dps is a solid dps for good end game monks. I aint talking about bad monks either. So your whole 600 dps aint gonna fly. It aint my problem if you have trouble hitting 600. Up your gear, or up your rotation.
650 + effect of DET = asking for 730 is too much? Or maybe simply admit that all that DET stacking didnt jack up your dps at all

Hit a Dummy and upload a vid!

[Viridiana]

And I call you a liar.

You can do that, but I've already demonstrated that you're either wrong or lying about BRD having the lowest WD weight. You could admit that you were wrong, and then I'd have no grounds to call you a liar. But instead you ignored my accusation, so I'm gonna continue making it.

Drop your attitude. I dont need to explain things to a bard with ilvl80 monk.

Funny thing is, none of that is accurate. I'm not a BRD, and my MNK isn't i80. But, I don't need a i130 MNK to realize that your math is entirely wrong.

Things have already been explained. 650 dps is a solid dps for good end game monks. I aint talking about bad monks either. So your whole 600 dps aint gonna fly.

650, as has been pointed out by better MNKs than you or I, is pretty high. It's what you would expect on an outlier good run. Using it as a basis to extrapolate upward for normal parse is dishonest. 600 is a better "normal" value. Asking to go from 600 to 730 with only the variance in DET that you can find in 130 gear is complete bullcrap, and you should know it. If you don't know it, see point 2 in my last post. You're talking about a gain of 120 DET somehow translating into 100 DPS or more. That's completely preposterous, and is not what the weighting predicts at all.

It aint my problem if you have trouble hitting 600. Up your gear, or up your rotation.
650 + effect of DET = asking for 730 is too much? Or maybe simply admit that all that DET stacking didnt jack up your dps at all

It ain't my problem if you can't understand math. I'm just going to correct you for anyone watching. 600 + 120 Determination (while hacking the game to somehow keep Crit and SS the same) still isn't enough to hit 730, no. If it were, the stat weights would be wrong.