[Suggestion] SAMURAI

[myahele]

I hope SAM will become a DPS job. it'll be redundant to have 2 2-hand sword wielding tanks.

[Shippuu]

I hope SAM will become a DPS job. it'll be redundant to have 2 2-hand sword wielding tanks.

As opposed to what for a new tank then? Because all the other possible options are even more redundant. Templar? No different then a Paladin. Rune Fencer? Magic infused Greatsword, sounds just like what we're getting with DRK. Viking? We already got Warrior. Everything else in FF that wears heavy armor uses swords. Samurai is the only one that has more of a unique flair to it. So unless SE is gonna make a completely new job to FF for the next tank (Which is highly, highly unlikely, not when they have an adequate option that's a very popular request in Samurai) then Samurai is still the most logical choice.

[AzraelX]

No different then a Paladin. Rune Fencer? Magic infused Greatsword, sounds just like what we're getting with DRK. Viking? We already got Warrior. Everything else in FF that wears heavy armor uses swords. Samurai is the only one that has more of a unique flair to it. So unless SE is gonna make a completely new job to FF for the next tank (Which is highly, highly unlikely, not when they have an adequate option that's a very popular request in Samurai) then Samurai is still the most logical choice.

i agree with you. I mean Yoshida did say he thought DRK was more DPS role too but here it as a tank. And considering SAM was the other option-a popular one at that- for a tank. I'm sure it will be the next one. I think having NIN and SAM as melee dps is even more redundant than SAM as tank. SAM as a parrying tank would be interesting and bringing more people to the tank role helps the community greatly.

[Mugiawara]

As opposed to what for a new tank then? Because all the other possible options are even more redundant. Templar? No different then a Paladin. Rune Fencer? Magic infused Greatsword, sounds just like what we're getting with DRK. Viking? We already got Warrior. Everything else in FF that wears heavy armor uses swords. Samurai is the only one that has more of a unique flair to it. So unless SE is gonna make a completely new job to FF for the next tank (Which is highly, highly unlikely, not when they have an adequate option that's a very popular request in Samurai) then Samurai is still the most logical choice.

Well DRK was suppose to a DPS but look at what we got.
We need variety all around the roles here. We do not have a sword user in the DPS area.
They keep pushing them all to tanks. They could get more creativity and use a different kind of tank
as oppose to a sword user too. THE CLOSEST thing to a sword we got is the daggers.
So I can feel sword lovers being pretty upset if SAM was a tank. I wouldn't be surprised if it was but I don't see why it wouldn't be a DPS.
I also like this idea:

i dont see why they wouldn't increase the usability of the class and make a tank (shogun) and dps (ronin/samurai) tree.

They're just going to keep pushing the most wanted jobs into the least desirable role.

[Shippuu]

Well DRK was suppose to a DPS but look at what we got.
We need variety all around the roles here. We do not have a sword user in the DPS area.

DRK wasn't supposed to be anything in this game. Past FF games didn't have MMO trinity roles, there was people who did damage and people who healed, that's about it with varying buffing/debuffing.

And unless you haven't noticed, DPS have ALL the variety. In the current game, DPS have 3x the amount of choices a tank or healer has. 3 TIMES. Having more tank and healer variety is not a bad thing, those players deserve variety too and incentive to play those roles. Most wanted jobs into Tanks? Last I checked Ninja and Machinist weren't tanks.

May I point you to the idea of Blue Mage for Tank? I keep seeing counter as the main thing for Samurai tank, what better way to counter than to throw that mess right back at them?

See, this is possible but highly unlikely. Because unless they flip Blue Mages on their heads and give them heavy armor (Which would be a first for FF games really) then it's not gonna happen. SE will take the path of least resistance when adding new jobs from a workload standpoint, so new tanks will likely wear heavy tank armor, if not then they either have to make an entirely new classification of armor or give Blue Mages a stance or passive ability that boosts their defence and vitality while wearing mage gear.

Why not? As other's have mentioned DRK has been a DPS and especially one that sacrifices their own health.

If Yoshi can make it so that healers have 3 different weapons (4 if you count wands/shields) then they can surely be abit more creative when it comes to their tanks?

Possible weapons:
Mace
War Hammers
Flail
etc.

Again as mentioned above, everything in past FF games (barring FFXI) has either been a DPS or a Healer. Last I checked Tanks still do DPS (And often a respectable amount at that).

And of those 3 weapons you just listed, none of them are anymore unique to what we have except for the Flail. A mace by animation standpoints is no different then the 1 handed swords Paladins have. War Hammers? What difference animation/looks wise is that from the Great Axes Warriors have? The difference between a warhammer and an axe is no different then the greatswords of DRK and potential great katanas of SAM. Those are terrible examples man.

[myahele]

SNIP

Then please suggest other possible weapons for future tanks after SAM if that's your reasoning

[Shippuu]

Then please suggest other possible weapons for future tanks after SAM if that's your reasoning

I don't really need to because SAM is still the ideal fit for the next tank regardless of it's weapon type. I have no problem with the similarities of a Great Katana and the Greatswords. Your argument against SAM was that the weapons would be too similar, and then you went a listed weapons that are the same similarities to the other two tanks we already have.

I'm not gonna do your work for you, it's your position to provide an adequate substitute that's both an iconic and requested FF job that can fit the tank role without thematically stepping on the toes of any of the other tanks we currently have since that was your argument.

As for after SAM? Who knows, that window is so far in the future it's not really up to speculate on. There's a high potential that there won't be more added after that.

[Duelle]

And unless you haven't noticed, DPS have ALL the variety. In the current game, DPS have 3x the amount of choices a tank or healer has. 3 TIMES.

The "tank:everyone else" ratio is still pretty good. Out of 10 jobs 2 are tanks, 2 are healers, the remaining 6 are DPS. The split doesn't seem as bad as you're making it when you look at the actual numbers.

Having more tank and healer variety is not a bad thing, those players deserve variety too and incentive to play those roles. Most wanted jobs into Tanks? Last I checked Ninja and Machinist weren't tanks.

Having tank and DPS be equal in numbers is not going to get more people to play tanks. Variety plays a role, obviously, but some people are naturally inclined to tank, just as they are inclined to heal or DPS. I know I'm not a healer at heart and never will be (considering the only healer I enjoyed was my healer-mercenary Bounty Hunter in SWTOR). While tanks do need variety as the number of jobs in the game continues to grow, do keep in mind that DPS players outnumber everyone else, so them getting a larger pool of choices is simply par for the course.

SE will take the path of least resistance when adding new jobs from a workload standpoint, so new tanks will likely wear heavy tank armor, if not then they either have to make an entirely new classification of armor or give Blue Mages a stance or passive ability that boosts their defence and vitality while wearing mage gear.

We're eventually going to run out of jobs that can believably wear heavy armor, and going the route of variety will mean the devs will have to create jobs that don't wear heavy armor but have mechanics that allow them to tank. Two WoW examples I can bring up are druids (whose stats change when they go into bear form) and monks (who have built-in mechanics to keep damage taken under control despite wearing light armor). My original Mystic Knight suggestion had them equipping MNK/BRD gear but having a toggle that increases defense values from gear to make up for that gap. I'm sure there's other ways to pull this sort of thing off, too.

A mace by animation standpoints is no different then the 1 handed swords Paladins have.

Erm...not really. Maces would require separate animations from swords (Riot Blade with a mace would look ridiculous). You might be able to get away with that if it were one-handed axes, but not with a mace.

Granted, if I were to implement something like this, I'd design it so that the combat style would be mace/1H axe + shield instead of just mace/1H axe (meaning the attack animations would involve the player character hitting the target using both).

As for "viking", Skyrim still fresh in the memory of most people, I'd have no problem with it being a job centered on battle commands or "shouts". >.>

[Shippuu]

The "tank:everyone else" ratio is still pretty good. Out of 10 jobs 2 are tanks, 2 are healers, the remaining 6 are DPS. The split doesn't seem as bad as you're making it when you look at the actual numbers.

When you look at actual numbers DPS still have more options than tanks and healers combined. They have enough variety for now that they don't need to take a very clear choice of turning SAM into a tank and trying to campaign for it to be another DPS. Variety and putting attractive jobs as tanks can help lure those career DPS into trying tanks. Many DPS players have never tanked and there's certainly some that might find it enjoyable once they try it.

We're eventually going to run out of jobs that can believably wear heavy armor, and going the route of variety will mean the devs will have to create jobs that don't wear heavy armor but have mechanics that allow them to tank.

I've already acknowledged this as a possibility. But we're a year and a half away from any potential SAM tank, with another expansion adding more jobs 1.5-2 years after that. Will they run out of heavy armor jobs for tanks? Sure at some point, but who is to say they won't stop adding jobs at all at that point? We don't know, it's too far into the future, we can only really speculate on a more near future.

Erm...not really. Maces would require separate animations from swords (Riot Blade with a mace would look ridiculous). You might be able to get away with that if it were one-handed axes, but not with a mace.

And this exact logic can be applied towards Samurai with their Katanas. Great Katanas held and swung differently than DRK Greatswords. Normal Katanas having animations including the saya/scabbard. Or even potential dual wielding Katana+wakizashi.

[Mugiawara]

DRK wasn't supposed to be anything in this game. Past FF games didn't have MMO trinity roles, there was people who did damage and people who healed, that's about it with varying buffing/debuffing.

And unless you haven't noticed, DPS have ALL the variety. In the current game, DPS have 3x the amount of choices a tank or healer has. 3 TIMES. Having more tank and healer variety is not a bad thing, those players deserve variety too and incentive to play those roles. Most wanted jobs into Tanks? Last I checked Ninja and Machinist weren't tanks.

Archer/Ranger/Bard thing = Some weird ass Hybrid. I wanted an actual HEALING/SUPPORT job. Not this thing. People WILL NOT SING because they don't wanna lose DPS. Should of split this in two.
MRD/WAR: Back in the day, people THOUGHT it to be a DPS, re-rolled because they thought it WAS a DPS.
DRK: People been hoping for DRK to be a DPS for the longest, don't you remember the amount of angry people when they announced it was tank?
NIN: Hate to pull ye ole' FF11...but wasn't it a tank? [Players made it so but hey...] also I haven't seen much hate against it NOT being a tank here because it wasn't suppose to be so people were pretty alright when it was released.

My point was just we're missing a swordie DPS after people wanting it so long. Why not try and think of new items tanks can use?
Healers are in 3 different area's and use completely different things! [WHM/SCH/AST.]
Tanks have no variety in the weapon section. Some people don't wanna tank.
Nothing wrong with that but they could break the two so one can be a tank AND a dps. Both sides win.
But eh, we have no idea what SAM is going to be so I'm not delving too hard into this.
Also your post sounds harsh, relax.