Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[StrejdaTom]

From a quick view in his profile (classes, pets, mounts), I would say he has not seen much of this game.

Well if he cleared big bad dragon he would have lousioux minion. Also dont have a mirdgarsommir minion too.
By the way I take people who cleared FCOB or even Savage seriously.

Sorry for bad minion names, they are kinda weird.

[GenJoe]

lol I don't know why everyone's getting so worked up over this..
But no, I don't partake in raids in this game. I've done that for a few years back in WoW and at the moment, I don't want to get into the raid scene, nor can I allocate a large chunk of uninterrupted gaming time to dedicate to raiding.

But I HAVE been there, done that.. I've been playing MMOs since the 2001/2002, did my share of time in wow raids since the vanilla days up to Cataclysm (started in early third phase of closed beta), ran arenas, most prominent achievement was during my Age of Conan days when I was among the first to make it out to Kheshatta and did some extensive pvp there until everybody left the game... In fact iirc I was actually the first Herald of Xotli to max lvl on the server... Long story short, I've been there done that,
Now, does my stories impress you? I bet it didn't, Nor does your tales of FCOB clears..

I understand the teamwork involved and the amount of effort, I'm not discrediting that, I just disagree that getting the Final Witness title means you've WON in this game.
They'll release more raids, in fact, very very soon, Coils will become obsolete.. Some people will inevitably pay for clears again, but does it really irk you that badly? It's not like they're paying to be World first, or even server first, Why do some people see so much renown in that "achievement"??

As for my forum character, that is not my main. My biggest interest in this game is crafting and I'm 4 star crafter with decent market share around.. One of the few on my server that actually makes primal weapons Does this story impress you? No, it shouldn't.. Don't expect your epeen to impress me either.

raids apparently 'mean nothing', then what's the point of anything? Since nothing apparently matters and everything is a joke.

Do you not see a problem with that attitude?
It may mean something to you, it may mean a great deal to you, you beat FCOB? GREAT! Good for you.
What's the point of anything?? Because you enjoyed doing it that's the entire point.. Not the little title and achievement you get so you can shove it in other people's faces as to your greatness..

Let me guess, when/if you got your zeta weapon, you went to Mor Dhona and afk'd for 2 days with your weapon out didn't you?

[KarstenS]

I'm 4 star crafter with decent market share around.. One of the few on my server that actually makes primal weapons

These weapons are not 4 star. I've also looked some time into it and decided not to craft them, as they sell way to slow and block slots for stuff that gets much faster sold.

[GenJoe]

These weapons are not 4 star. I've also looked some time into it and decided not to craft them, as they sell way to slow and block slots for stuff that gets much faster sold.

I never said they were.. They are a tad more difficult to hq than 4 stars though, that was the point I was making.

There's a trick to selling them, you need a dedicated retainer and some monitoring, but you CAN make some very nice profit off of them.. I don't sell'em though, I just make them.

[KarstenS]

They are just glamour. I've never crafted them for selling purposes. But I got requests of friend and nobody wanted them in HQ.

[Richiealvian]

lol I don't know why everyone's getting so worked up over this..
But no, I don't partake in raids in this game. I've done that for a few years back in WoW and at the moment, I don't want to get into the raid scene, nor can I allocate a large chunk of uninterrupted gaming time to dedicate to raiding.

But I HAVE been there, done that.. I've been playing MMOs since the 2001/2002, did my share of time in wow raids since the vanilla days up to Cataclysm (started in early third phase of closed beta), ran arenas, most prominent achievement was during my Age of Conan days when I was among the first to make it out to Kheshatta and did some extensive pvp there until everybody left the game... In fact iirc I was actually the first Herald of Xotli to max lvl on the server... Long story short, I've been there done that,
Now, does my stories impress you? I bet it didn't, Nor does your tales of FCOB clears..

I understand the teamwork involved and the amount of effort, I'm not discrediting that, I just disagree that getting the Final Witness title means you've WON in this game.
They'll release more raids, in fact, very very soon, Coils will become obsolete.. Some people will inevitably pay for clears again, but does it really irk you that badly? It's not like they're paying to be World first, or even server first, Why do some people see so much renown in that "achievement"??

As for my forum character, that is not my main. My biggest interest in this game is crafting and I'm 4 star crafter with decent market share around.. One of the few on my server that actually makes primal weapons Does this story impress you? No, it shouldn't.. Don't expect your epeen to impress me either.





Do you not see a problem with that attitude?
It may mean something to you, it may mean a great deal to you, you beat FCOB? GREAT! Good for you.
What's the point of anything?? Because you enjoyed doing it that's the entire point.. Not the little title and achievement you get so you can shove it in other people's faces as to your greatness..

Let me guess, when/if you got your zeta weapon, you went to Mor Dhona and afk'd for 2 days with your weapon out didn't you?

The way you put it was kind of rude that's why people are intimidated, but your point is valid. The achievements you've earned in this game hardly matters, it would only bring mostly personal satisfaction. But life is fleeting, so by buying runs/earning loot/winning yourself you're satisfying your ego at that exact moment, and the excitement you get at that time is very relevant to you.

I've cleared everything except sav7/8 myself and like you, I've been quite successful in a few games in the past, but it only serves as conversation fodder when meeting up with those friends. You know what lasts? The friends I made from the games I've played. Those are the important things in the long run, imo. Just enjoy the game the way you want to enjoy it, and leave when you're satisfied not leaving a bitter taste in your mouth.

[ShaneDawn]

The way you put it was kind of rude that's why people are intimidated, but your point is valid.

This. While you have some valid points there, the overall tone of your message was rather aggressive.

I stressed achievements are individual; everyone has a different sense of satisfaction. That, however, is no reason to brush off the issue. Run-selling, RMT, and buyable BiS gear are a co-existent issue that feed off of each other and produce more negative than positive.

Also, you shouldn't make baseless assumptions. What makes you think I'm the sort of person to show off my gear, or in that matter, raiders in general? Not everyone cares greatly for that so-called 'renown' more than immersing themselves and beating something great. You can still be opposed to backdoor-negative consequence arrangements such as run-selling. Attacking my persona only makes you look flustered and brings nothing constructive to the table.

[GenJoe]

This. While you have some valid points there, the overall tone of your message was rather aggressive.

I didn't mean to come off as aggressive... Indifferent was more what I was going for.

The very idea that someone can "WIN" in an MMO is just.. hard to take in.. Not only that, I'd consider something pay to win if there's a persistent advantage paying grants you.
Sure, buying a clear does give some people a slight edge, but one thing SE did right is that the no amount of gear in this game will replace the necessary skill check for the harder contents.

If people were paying to get a full set of pvp gear, or paying for a zeta weapon without having to grind, etc.. I think I'd see a problem with that model. But buying a clear is simply just that, buying a clear.
Some may do it for the story, some may do it for progression into FCOB, some may even do it for gear farming. Why are people so worried about that though? It's a hollow victory at best, let them waste their gil however they want to, it's none of our businesses.

Also, all of you looking into my profile as if I need to have some credentials before I can voice my opinion gives me the very impression that some of you may be the type that WOULD stand afk in Mor Dhona to show off your newly acquired gear.
Not to mention I would never use the no lifer argument, that's one of the lowest forms of argument one can use on a gaming forum..

Since so many of you think having a character beyond a lv 50 combat class is such a pre-requisite for making a legit argument yo, here we go. Can I have an opinion now?

http://i.imgur.com/l3ENhZz.jpg

EDIT: At limit apparently, so this will likely be my last retort for a while.

You do realize that in video games, when a player does not have an end game goal given to them by a game company, they will create their own ways to feel like they've accomplished what satisfies them instead? That is why a person can feel they have "WON" an MMO, by simply achieving the goals they set for themselves. If that goal is beating FCoB then that's their ending. Perhaps you are taking this rather literally.

I do understand that, but that's a personal goal. I do not care if there are other 4 star crafters around and they just happened to buy their way through it. Nor should you care when there are people walking around with T13 clears that they just bought. Just because someone bought their way to reach a goal, that shouldn't cheapen your own achievement that you got legitimately.

Unless of course, you're looking for external approval from your achievements, then I can understand why it would irk you that there are "imposters" out and about.
For me, I just don't care about what other people think of my "achievements" in this game.. All of it is internal. If I think I've done something well, that's good enough. I don't need a title hanging over my head to show the rest of the World, nor does it bother me that some other people just paid their way to get to where I am.

P.S. Read your own signature!! That's where I'm coming from.

[Elusana_Celah]

"WIN" in an MMO

You do realize that in video games, when a player does not have an end game goal given to them by a game company, they will create their own ways to feel like they've accomplished what satisfies them instead? That is why a person can feel they have "WON" an MMO, by simply achieving the goals they set for themselves. If that goal is beating FCoB then that's their ending. Perhaps you are taking this rather literally.

I do understand that, but that's a personal goal. I do not care if there are other 4 star crafters around and they just happened to buy their way through it. Nor should you care when there are people walking around with T13 clears that they just bought. Just because someone bought their way to reach a goal, that shouldn't cheapen your own achievement that you got legitimately.

Unless of course, you're looking for external approval from your achievements, then I can understand why it would irk you that there are "imposters" out and about.
For me, I just don't care about what other people think of my "achievements" in this game.. All of it is internal. If I think I've done something well, that's good enough. I don't need a title hanging over my head to show the rest of the World, nor does it bother me that some other people just paid their way to get to where I am.

P.S. Read your own signature!! That's where I'm coming from.

So why are you putting so much effort into caring about what gives other people their sense of accomplishment in this game if you do not care about other people's personal goals? Let people enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it and you do the same. You're wasting so much of your energy trying to tell people that their personal goals and accomplishments are worthless to you here. I mean frankly, your personal goals and feelings are moot to me as well, but I'm not writing walls of text to shove my opinions in your face because that's just arrogant.

You pay your subscription, you play how you want. Other people pay their subscription, they play how they want. If, at any time, our playstyles conflicts with each other, well there's a ton of other people you can spend your time with, you don't need to worry about us huh?

[Dante_V]

I have no issue with people selling runs personally and I've never sold or bought any. I think demand for gil will always exist regardless of selling clears and therefore demand for RMT will exist. Even if you ban those selling it will still happen and square isn't in the market of banning folks who are paying subs and not objectively harming anyone. If you don't like it then don't participate. If you want to help stop the clear sellers than start helping people who want clears.

On another note I personally know some very wealthy crafters on my servers who have bought clears with money they've earned. however this isn't conclusive logic to cite an increase in RMT in regards to selling clears nor is it conclusive to combat such a claim. The claim itself has no proof. Correlation doesn't necessarily imply casualty and people who buy gil will do so regardless of whether people are selling clears.