Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[Warlyx]

Since so many of you think having a character beyond a lv 50 combat class is such a pre-requisite for making a legit argument yo, here we go. Can I have an opinion now?

http://i.imgur.com/l3ENhZz.jpg

u can buy every opinion in this forum :P

[CGMidlander]

u can buy every opinion in this forum :P

Let's not resort to ad hominem here. o.o"

[Aerowaffle]

If you seriously think buying runs is pay to win..
i.e. Completing T13 makes you a winner in this game, please, refocus your goals in this game.. Raid completion is a joke, nobody takes you seriously just because you killed a big bad dragon..

I don't really care what you believe my goals in the game should be. An MMO, this one especially, has several avenues of advancement that individuals could consider their goal. And seeing others use gil and/or real money to circumvent any effort or skill normally required lessens the accomplishment for all those that complete it, since onlookers can't correlate the accomplishment with the skill/effort anymore.

[CGMidlander]

I don't really care what you believe my goals in the game should be. An MMO, this one especially, has several avenues of advancement that individuals could consider their goal. And seeing others use gil and/or real money to circumvent any effort or skill normally required lessens the accomplishment for all those that complete it, since onlookers can't correlate the accomplishment with the skill/effort anymore.

Some people work pretty hard to earn their gil. I know a couple people who are solely focused on crafting and playing the market board, and they have more gil than I can even dream of having.

Are they not allowed to buy a service with their gil?

A farmer in real life can grow his or her own crops and have a sense of accomplishment that they grew their own food. But does that make people with different jobs who buy food at a supermarket any lesser?

[MageBlack]

Like I tell my kids when they ask me to beat a level they are stuck on in a game. I can offer advise and show you how to do it, but you need to do it yourself. If someone else does it for you then you wont be able to do the next boss, or the next boss. They only get harder and by skipping the lessons the bosses teach you, you will be less prepared for things to come. I know its tough but you need to see what you are doing and how you need to adapt to win.

[Aerowaffle]

Some people work pretty hard to earn their gil. I know a couple people who are solely focused on crafting and playing the market board, and they have more gil than I can even dream of having.

Are they not allowed to buy a service with their gil?

A farmer in real life can grow his or her own crops and have a sense of accomplishment that they grew their own food. But does that make people with different jobs who buy vegetables at a supermarket any lesser?

I guess I should narrow my grievance. I dislike RMT being used to skip content in any way, shape, or form. I dislike people using gil, to bypass what should be an exercise of skill and teamwork.

Crafting is a lump of effort and time. Using gil you made through crafting, to advance crafting, is using previous extra effort to skip some time.

And I don't really have a comment on trying to relate a video game's effort and accomplishments to farming for a living.

[AkashiXI]

Like I tell my kids when they ask me to beat a level they are stuck on in a game. I can offer advise and show you how to do it, but you need to do it yourself. If someone else does it for you then you wont be able to do the next boss, or the next boss. They only get harder and by skipping the lessons the bosses teach you, you will be less prepared for things to come. I know its tough but you need to see what you are doing and how you need to adapt to win.

...and then your kid puts in cheat codes ;D

[KarstenS]

Some people work pretty hard to earn their gil. I know a couple people who are solely focused on crafting and playing the market board, and they have more gil than I can even dream of having.

Are they not allowed to buy a service with their gil?

Do you really think these kind of people is the majority of kill buyers?

I do not sell runs. But I play together with ppl that sell runs. When we don't get our farmgroup full with own ppl, we pf up. Many times ppl joined and I've heared in ts "Look this guy. We've sold him that kill yesterday" or similar stuff. Than I take a closer look at this guy and in most cases I really can't believe that this guy paid with legit obtained gil.

A not small amount of ppl seem to buy their kills to bypass the 100 sol message, so that they can join farm parties. The issue is: they make the "farm runs" look like practise runs.

[CGMidlander]

I guess I should narrow my grievance. I dislike RMT being used to skip content in any way, shape, or form. I dislike people using gil, to bypass what should be an exercise of skill and teamwork.

Crafting is a lump of effort and time. Using gil you made through crafting, to advance crafting, is using previous extra effort to skip some time.

And I don't really have a comment on trying to relate a video game's effort and accomplishments to farming for a living.

Do you know what a metaphor is?

Anyway, from what I'm seeing, it seems the base of a lot of the anti-sell arguments is that run sells are so expensive that the only way people can afford them is to buy gil through RMT.

That's untrue.

Most runs don't cost double-digit millions. They cost single-digit millions. (And for some really old content, not even a million per run)
These costs are not even remotely out of reach for many dedicated crafters.

Do you really think these kind of people is the majority of kill buyers?

Without any concrete statistics, nobody can say for certain in either direction.

[Noshpan]

Sticking to the topic of the thread, I don't think that sell groups are hurting the community per se, though it isn't much of a stretch to see how it is possible. There will always be a minor few whom will take the path with as close to zero resistance as possible, and if that means purchasing gil to buy raid services, they will do it. I don't think that those offering said services do so with secretly promoting rmt in mind, at least, I'd like to think that the vast majority don't. But it could very well be an unintended side effect.

Long story story short: The answer is "Feasible, but until there's concrete evidence to prove it does, it's only a likely probability."