Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[CGMidlander]

Yes lets compare real life jobs (where your performance makes the owner money) to video games, that always works.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things, telling someone they suck then kick them may serve the purpose of getting them out of your sight and content but dont pretend it dosnt make you look like a dick in the process.

Explaining to them they need to work on their rotations in a friendly manor might make them more motivated to actually try harder instead of getting shot down just cause they arnt experts at their class.

You can White Knight all you want, but the fact is the person is still inept for the instance at hand and should be replaced so as to not waste the other 7 people's time.

[SDaemon]

Yes, that is perfectly fine. Let's say you apply for a job as a Cisco router and switch technician. When you show up to the job, you have absolutely no idea how to use Cisco IOS, nor how to configure a switch or router. Do you think you're going to get or keep that job? Absolutely not. It is not their job to teach you, it is YOUR job to take time and teach yourself.

I'm not talking about mechanics here, which vary from fight to fight. I'm talking about being able to do your basic job.

Well your logic is grossly and horribly flawed, but lets roll with it. You are not the boss (you are not even at supervisory level here) of the instance to which they have "applied" for. So suck it up buttercup!

White Knight

This word has come to be used so far beyond its meaning it's rather sad.

[Spy]

What I am referring to is the RNG with drops. Don't get me wrong, I do not think it's a good idea for a person to go into a dungeon once and get everything, it's more a case of swapping drops for tokens or some other method of reducing the horrific RNG. If you want the PLD sword in T9 for example, you might do it 30 times before it drops, that's 30 lots of paying someone might do, and that means $$$ for RMT. If you dropped a token that 1 player can loot, and trade in for a specific item of their choice, that would result in just 1 paid run. Alternatively, the RNG factor can be limited to the classes in the group, so instead of getting NIN and MNK drops when there's not one in the group, it would reduce the chances of undesirable drops, and again, reducing the potential kills needed (though with this game design style, you could in theory still need 30 kills for a specific drop).

I can agree with that. I actually like the token idea

_____________

And to those saying "it's no worse than being carried by friends" :

Though I can see why you'd say that, when it comes to my friends and FC and the people I've encountered through livestreaming and such, we almost always discuss strategies/mechanics/ways to improve/etc...and worked to help those who aren't strong at a particular part of the fight exceed. I know not everyone is like this, but justifying "boosting" with that is just silly. Because that's not the only thing wrong with "boosting"

Yes, that is perfectly fine. Let's say you apply for a job as a Cisco router and switch technician. When you show up to the job, you have absolutely no idea how to use Cisco IOS, nor how to configure a switch or router. Do you think you're going to get or keep that job? Absolutely not. It is not their job to teach you, it is YOUR job to take time and teach yourself.

I'm not talking about mechanics here, which vary from fight to fight. I'm talking about being able to do your basic job.

Uhh.....as someone who is completely against the run selling, your analogy is off....if I go to a job, actually it is the job of my superiors to teach me wtf I'm doing...you can't just walk into a job knowing how to do everything. Unless it's a field you're already greatly familiar with. And even then you need to learn what that job requires, their policies, their methods of practice. And that'd not really something you can teach yourself. The basics, sure....but....yeah...I'm going off topic. Because that doesn't have anything to do with run selling really...just an odd analogy. I may have just misinterpreted it, and I apologize if I had...but *shrug*

[Anneliese]

Yes. I'll admit I'm guilty of contributing to the problem though. One of the people that bought T9 from my group immediately put up a PF recruiting people for a final coil static after the carry. He advertised having several T10 clears (this was before soldiery bonus was a thing). One guy from my FC joined that group and had a pretty terrible experience and told me the raid leader kept messing up and it felt like that raid leader was getting carried. Eventually the group fell apart after people got tired of it.

[Iromi]

Absolutely. Not only does it promote bad players, it promotes gil buying and rmt :/

[Lorielle]

In what way does it "hurt the community"? There is a preference whether you approve or not, but that's not the point of discussion here. There's a multitude of reasons why someone would buy a run. But how does it influence you directly? Just because someone is bad at X Content that needed previous content does not indicate that they bought their clears. It could have been 7 others which carried them to victory. I mean, I'm certain we all see those types of people and wonder "How did you even get to this point...?"

Example? I see a BLM wearing Dreadwyrm Casting robe in T9. He gets picked for Golem Meteor...There's a meteor right next to where he's placing it. Doesn't adjust. Wipes raid. A very simple mechanic, and yet you have a T11 clear? >_>

[Anneliese]

Well your logic is grossly and horribly flawed, but lets roll with it. You are not the boss (you are not even at supervisory level here) of the instance to which they have "applied" for. So suck it up buttercup!

Actually, if it's his PF group or raid group and he is the leader, he has every right to kick someone from it, without obligation to give a reason for it.

Don't believe me? Try reporting someone for kicking you from their static or pre-formed party and tell us how that goes.

[Spy]

Some of the justification in this thread towards run selling is exactly the reason I love being on a JP server >.>...

[Ryel]

Well your logic is grossly and horribly flawed, but lets roll with it. You are not the boss (you are not even at supervisory level here) of the instance to which they have "applied" for. So suck it up buttercup!

Well actually, if they put up a Party Finder that's exactly what they are to be honest.

If a party finder has a set of specific conditions (Greed pick 2 items) or a set goal (Learning / Clear) or requires knowledge up to a certain phase etc it's expected that anyone joining that party is able to perform up to those conditions, that means being able to tank / heal / DPS said instance.

If a member's performance is not up to par and is to the detriment of the group the PF leader has every right to dismiss the person from the party.

[SDaemon]

Actually, if it's his PF group or raid group and he is the leader, he has every right to kick someone from it, without obligation to give a reason for it.

Don't believe me? Try reporting someone for kicking you from their static or pre-formed party and tell us how that goes.

You can form a full group, smile and disband it without care. If this is a full-premade w/ him as lead than yes, he can kick whoever he pleases at anytime. Doing so is a good way to get on blacklists, but considering his opinion of the player he'd kick I doubt it troubles his mind. What I wrote was in regards to DF and the abuse of parsers in regards to his flawed logic of using a real life job comparison.

Well actually, if they put up a Party Finder that's exactly what they are to be honest.

If a party finder has a set of specific conditions (Greed pick 2 items) or a set goal (Learning / Clear) or requires knowledge up to a certain phase etc it's expected that anyone joining that party is able to perform up to those conditions, that means being able to tank / heal / DPS said instance.

If a member's performance is not up to par and is to the detriment of the group the PF leader has every right to dismiss the person from the party.

Actually it isn't. You really can't tell the difference between a real life business with a boss and employees and a PF party?