Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[SDaemon]

Yes, that is perfectly fine. Let's say you apply for a job as a Cisco router and switch technician. When you show up to the job, you have absolutely no idea how to use Cisco IOS, nor how to configure a switch or router. Do you think you're going to get or keep that job? Absolutely not. It is not their job to teach you, it is YOUR job to take time and teach yourself.

I'm not talking about mechanics here, which vary from fight to fight. I'm talking about being able to do your basic job.

Well your logic is grossly and horribly flawed, but lets roll with it. You are not the boss (you are not even at supervisory level here) of the instance to which they have "applied" for. So suck it up buttercup!

White Knight

This word has come to be used so far beyond its meaning it's rather sad.

[Anneliese]

Well your logic is grossly and horribly flawed, but lets roll with it. You are not the boss (you are not even at supervisory level here) of the instance to which they have "applied" for. So suck it up buttercup!

Actually, if it's his PF group or raid group and he is the leader, he has every right to kick someone from it, without obligation to give a reason for it.

Don't believe me? Try reporting someone for kicking you from their static or pre-formed party and tell us how that goes.

[SDaemon]

Actually, if it's his PF group or raid group and he is the leader, he has every right to kick someone from it, without obligation to give a reason for it.

Don't believe me? Try reporting someone for kicking you from their static or pre-formed party and tell us how that goes.

You can form a full group, smile and disband it without care. If this is a full-premade w/ him as lead than yes, he can kick whoever he pleases at anytime. Doing so is a good way to get on blacklists, but considering his opinion of the player he'd kick I doubt it troubles his mind. What I wrote was in regards to DF and the abuse of parsers in regards to his flawed logic of using a real life job comparison.

Well actually, if they put up a Party Finder that's exactly what they are to be honest.

If a party finder has a set of specific conditions (Greed pick 2 items) or a set goal (Learning / Clear) or requires knowledge up to a certain phase etc it's expected that anyone joining that party is able to perform up to those conditions, that means being able to tank / heal / DPS said instance.

If a member's performance is not up to par and is to the detriment of the group the PF leader has every right to dismiss the person from the party.

Actually it isn't. You really can't tell the difference between a real life business with a boss and employees and a PF party?

[Ryel]

Actually it isn't. You really can't tell the difference between a real life business with a boss and employees and a PF party?

Actually it goes further than that and more to the dynamics of team play.

The "Real Life" defense is always a poor fallback when any activity can be goal oriented and performance based, in this case if a PF has a spot open for Black Mage and you apply for the position (See: Join the party as a BLM) then you are expected to perform your job at a level appropriate for the content that you are trying to clear.

If you can't then the PF leader is likely to replace you.

[SDaemon]

snip

There is nothing requiring to you to preform to any expectations when joining a PF, sure the PF lead can kick you after you join for any and all reasons that pop into their mind (here in Eorzea workplace equality laws don't exist, shame). There is no application process or screening. If you met the ilvl requirements the PF poster has set and have access to the content than anybody can stroll on in at their leisure and join your group. If you down the content, you have no way of knowing if that BLM was sitting there munching on cheetos the entire fight or if the WHM was stressed out and playing at %110 (give them a cookie and a pay raise!)

Seriously, there are so many holes in the logic of trying to compare a real life job to this.

[Ryel]

Actually hard DPS checks disagree with you on this, it's much less apparent now with echo but most raids (See: Coil) have some sort of DPS performance check.

Sure if you clear without issues you may have no way of knowing if they were doing their job adequately or not, but it becomes very apparent when you don't clear if certain DPS aren't pulling their weight, for example is the BLM using AoE to kill the Blackfires in T12 or are they spamming single target on the boss and now we're wiping the run?

The expectations of the party are usually stated in the PF before you join and the screening process is the ability to remove players from the group that aren't able to meet the requirements set in the PF, And actually for DF ilvl is the same thing really, it's a value that determines the minimum performance level (based on gear stats) capable of completing the content you queue for.

Item level is a hard check in the game preventing people from under-gearing or entering content they aren't ready for but only from a numbers side, as someone can still go in and face-roll their keyboard and wipe the party, So yes even the DF has some level of expectations you are required to meet.

[SDaemon]

snip

I said if you down the content. That implies you met the DPS checks, but thanks.

You can write your expectations in the PF comment box all you want, it doesn't stop players from joining. Unless SE gives players a way to have numerous ppl "apply" to join and the lead selectively choose who they want, there is no application or screening. You simply join and run with it. If you don't like certain members or the lead then you disband or kick.

You are really grasping out for straws here.

[Dererk]

There is nothing requiring to you to preform to any expectations when joining a PF, sure the PF lead can kick you after you join for any and all reasons that pop into their mind (here in Eorzea workplace equality laws don't exist, shame). There is no application process or screening. If you met the ilvl requirements the PF poster has set and have access to the content than anybody can stroll on in at their leisure and join your group. If you down the content, you have no way of knowing if that BLM was sitting there munching on cheetos the entire fight or if the WHM was stressed out and playing at %110 (give them a cookie and a pay raise!)

Seriously, there are so many holes in the logic of trying to compare a real life job to this.

just meeting the item level a person set in party finder isn't enough of a reason to join they also have to meet the exp it progression that the part leader has set. If your not at that part of the fight at lest be considerate and ask otherwise don't join because then your wasting the others time.

[Ryel]

Well your logic is grossly and horribly flawed, but lets roll with it. You are not the boss (you are not even at supervisory level here) of the instance to which they have "applied" for. So suck it up buttercup!

Well actually, if they put up a Party Finder that's exactly what they are to be honest.

If a party finder has a set of specific conditions (Greed pick 2 items) or a set goal (Learning / Clear) or requires knowledge up to a certain phase etc it's expected that anyone joining that party is able to perform up to those conditions, that means being able to tank / heal / DPS said instance.

If a member's performance is not up to par and is to the detriment of the group the PF leader has every right to dismiss the person from the party.