Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[Ryel]

Actually it isn't. You really can't tell the difference between a real life business with a boss and employees and a PF party?

Actually it goes further than that and more to the dynamics of team play.

The "Real Life" defense is always a poor fallback when any activity can be goal oriented and performance based, in this case if a PF has a spot open for Black Mage and you apply for the position (See: Join the party as a BLM) then you are expected to perform your job at a level appropriate for the content that you are trying to clear.

If you can't then the PF leader is likely to replace you.

[Imoye]

Nope. Clear selling has always been in games. The real problem lies in the ban on parsers and not being able to call anyone out for being bad. Party sucks? Better disband it because we might get reported if we tell Tommy and Timmy to step up their game.

I've played quite a few MMOs, and I've never played one with as extensive boosting as this one. I think it's about time to make it bannable and let people earn money in a legit way instead of explotation of game mechanics. Would also diminish the RMT problem from all the people buying for clear runs.

[Anneliese]

How is it an exploitation of game mechanics? If a fight was designed to be beatable with 7 people, can you really blame people for doing it?

[Ryel]

I'm not personally a fan of selling content, if someone needs help I'd much prefer to simply join a party and help them out, that being said however what someone elects to do with their own gil is their business really.

The best solution to putting a stop to content selling is one that has to come from SE's side, less restrictive lockouts like they have planned for Alexander Normal in Heavensward and more variable content that isn't restricted to 8-man groups will really, really go a long way to alleviating some of the issue. It won't completely stop it by any means but players would be less inclined to buy content if more groups were available for them to run through.

[Urthdigger]

I have to ask, for those who sell clears and claim to join learning/clear parties I have to ask: why? What makes it any different that you'd skip out on 10+mil for the fight?

[SDaemon]

snip

There is nothing requiring to you to preform to any expectations when joining a PF, sure the PF lead can kick you after you join for any and all reasons that pop into their mind (here in Eorzea workplace equality laws don't exist, shame). There is no application process or screening. If you met the ilvl requirements the PF poster has set and have access to the content than anybody can stroll on in at their leisure and join your group. If you down the content, you have no way of knowing if that BLM was sitting there munching on cheetos the entire fight or if the WHM was stressed out and playing at %110 (give them a cookie and a pay raise!)

Seriously, there are so many holes in the logic of trying to compare a real life job to this.

[Ryel]

Actually hard DPS checks disagree with you on this, it's much less apparent now with echo but most raids (See: Coil) have some sort of DPS performance check.

Sure if you clear without issues you may have no way of knowing if they were doing their job adequately or not, but it becomes very apparent when you don't clear if certain DPS aren't pulling their weight, for example is the BLM using AoE to kill the Blackfires in T12 or are they spamming single target on the boss and now we're wiping the run?

The expectations of the party are usually stated in the PF before you join and the screening process is the ability to remove players from the group that aren't able to meet the requirements set in the PF, And actually for DF ilvl is the same thing really, it's a value that determines the minimum performance level (based on gear stats) capable of completing the content you queue for.

Item level is a hard check in the game preventing people from under-gearing or entering content they aren't ready for but only from a numbers side, as someone can still go in and face-roll their keyboard and wipe the party, So yes even the DF has some level of expectations you are required to meet.

[SDaemon]

snip

I said if you down the content. That implies you met the DPS checks, but thanks.

You can write your expectations in the PF comment box all you want, it doesn't stop players from joining. Unless SE gives players a way to have numerous ppl "apply" to join and the lead selectively choose who they want, there is no application or screening. You simply join and run with it. If you don't like certain members or the lead then you disband or kick.

You are really grasping out for straws here.

[seida]

Compare JP DF groups and NA/EU DF groups, let me wonder why no one made the connection to "content selling"...
On JP servers you will get help and you dont need to ask for it on your knees!

Um, what? Totally unrelated! JP DF is not more "helpful" - no one is there to teach, and usually no one will explain anything. The reason JP DF is "better" is because people rarely go in blind. On the whole, DF is for clears, PF is for practicing. It's considered really rude to go into hard DF content with no idea what you're doing.

Recently I have been doing t9 in DF. Not having the clear yet is ok, but if people are incapable of making it to heavensfall, the party vote abandons pretty soon. Even if you can make it to DB, it's usually 3 tries then abandon. Often in silence.

JP DF is GOOD, but it is not helpful.

[Chihaya]

Run buyers hurt the community when they lie about their experience in farming groups