Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[AlereRaeder]

Back in the day when the content was fresh I had the mindset that paying for clears was dumb and I would never be part of the seller group.

Now that all this content is abysmally old, I like selling because it's extremely easy money. I'm a nice person and sometimes join T9 clear parties to remove "1 less noob" but plenty a time its just me there watching players wipe to the same mechanics for hours in a clear party. It's insanity. When many people still have trouble moving; something you do as soon as you start the game.

If you have the will to purchase a clear, well its a good market. It does ruin endgame content when these players want to join farm parties when they know little to nothing about a turn nor are they proficient enough in their own jobs. It does not ruin the community, it's an MMO: get a clue. I've seen players who beat T9 wipe a T9 raid constantly. I've seen soldery bonus players who never wipe a raid but these are rare poor soul elites.To the players who clear the content constantly; selling is a good way to make something out of knowing a fight. No one has the obligation to clear a turn for you; money turns into a reason to do content that you had no reason doing. Sounds a bit like extortion but its a service they choose to pay for. If getting a less than 15minute 1 shot on a fight you spent 3+ weeks on. I think 10m is worth YOUR TIME.

Beat their heads on an instance for hours, or make the money to buy themselves a clear. truth

[NamudNevets]

OK, I sell runs but i ALSO help out for free and teach PPL with wht is going on. As was said MANY PPL buy for the loot. Iv had buyers stay alive and help if they want and know the fight, or they can die at start for full carry but thats up to them as they paid. Rolling against others for loot can be a BIG PAIN and even more so if its a PUG. Many times I try to jump in "farms" and half the PPL know what to do but don't do it and can cause MANY wipes and then disband with no loot.

Now i will say that im sure many of them buy gil because most of the sales are well over priced. I know groups that will teach the person the run as well if they choose to. But if thats the way they wanna play and spend their money in RL n game then ur darn rite ima willing to take it :P Iv had a dude buy like 5 T9 just for glams.

[Spy]

OK, I sell runs but i ALSO help out for free and teach PPL with wht is going on. As was said MANY PPL buy for the loot. Iv had buyers stay alive and help if they want and know the fight, or they can die at start for full carry but thats up to them as they paid. Rolling against others for loot can be a BIG PAIN and even more so if its a PUG. Many times I try to jump in "farms" and half the PPL know what to do but don't do it and can cause MANY wipes and then disband with no loot.

Now i will say that im sure many of them buy gil because most of the sales are well over priced. I know groups that will teach the person the run as well if they choose to. But if thats the way they wanna play and spend their money in RL n game then ur darn rite ima willing to take it :P Iv had a dude buy like 5 T9 just for glams.

That kind of mentality is what FEEDS rmt...and people are constantly whining about that, blaming SE when the real fault of rmt lies with the players. Yeah. I said it.

[Darra]

That kind of mentality is what FEEDS rmt...and people are constantly whining about that blaming SE when the real fault of rmt lies with the players.

This isn't entirely correct: SE designed the content in a way that locks people out (Must do T5 before access to T6+, must do T9 for access to T10+), SE also designed the loot system that results in players that do buy kills, having to potentially pay for multiple to get what they want. SE also designed instant raid wipe mechanics that some people are better than others at dealing with. Whilst some people will pay for gil regardless of what game designs are changed, a lot of the gil buying for kills/loot, is the result of game design. What's easier to fix? Human behavior (especially behavior that some people do not see as wrong/bad) or game design that leads to people feeling the need to use in game currency to pay for things?

[Spy]

This isn't entirely correct: SE designed the content in a way that locks people out (Must do T5 before access to T6+, must do T9 for access to T10+), SE also designed the loot system that results in players that do buy kills, having to potentially pay for multiple to get what they want. SE also designed instant raid wipe mechanics that some people are better than others at dealing with. Whilst some people will pay for gil regardless of what game designs are changed, a lot of the gil buying for kills/loot, is the result of game design. What's easier to fix? Human behavior (especially behavior that some people do not see as wrong/bad) or game design that leads to people feeling the need to use in game currency to pay for things?

I can see what you're saying. But I find nothing wrong with having to beat T9 to get to T10. Especially considering there's story to the coils. It's like the main scenario...I wouldn't like to be able to do it in any order. I like the designated order.

This however I'm not sure I understand, could you explain this or reword it? I don't quite know what you're trying to say here.

SE also designed the loot system that results in players that do buy kills, having to potentially pay for multiple to get what they want.

Are you saying it's because people need to run things multiple times to get what they want? If that is the case, I don't see what's wrong with that either. This is an mmo, and they need to make things last as long as they can. If they give you all the content in one go, then people would have been long done with this game already. People are already complaining about having done everything in the game. And they can only release so much. That aside, you still shouldn't need to pay to get content. I have never, nor will I ever pay or charge to do content multiple times. If my friends say they're aiming for a particular gear piece, if I can, I help them run it multiple times to get it. As they have done for me.

What would be nice is if people stop being in a dang rush for things. Enjoy the game...the battling and learning is part of the experience. I just don't share the mentality of I have to have everything NOW so it's just hard for me to understand. But if people have to have everything NOW then, how does that not ruin the experience later...ok so you have your stuff...now what? I, personally, love working hard to get a piece of gear, and that way, when I do have it, I say "Wow this piece took me three weeks to get! I'll cherish it! Time for screenshots! "

It's true you can't fix human behavior. But SE can only do so much. And "boosting" isn't helping the inspiration for lazy (or people with not enough time) players to buy gil. That's the main reason I can't stand it. and it's partly selfish if people aren't willing to learn mechanics because then they just expect everyone to carry them. IDK, I can't speak for people. I can only speak for myself. I just can't stand it. And the constant bickering and raising pitchforks at Square Enix, where there are multiple things causing RMT (Mostly people actually buying gil :O ) bugs the crap out of me.

[Darra]

This however I'm not sure I understand, could you explain this or reword it? I don't quite know what you're trying to say here.

What I am referring to is the RNG with drops. Don't get me wrong, I do not think it's a good idea for a person to go into a dungeon once and get everything, it's more a case of swapping drops for tokens or some other method of reducing the horrific RNG. If you want the PLD sword in T9 for example, you might do it 30 times before it drops, that's 30 lots of paying someone might do, and that means $$$ for RMT. If you dropped a token that 1 player can loot, and trade in for a specific item of their choice, that would result in just 1 paid run. Alternatively, the RNG factor can be limited to the classes in the group, so instead of getting NIN and MNK drops when there's not one in the group, it would reduce the chances of undesirable drops, and again, reducing the potential kills needed (though with this game design style, you could in theory still need 30 kills for a specific drop).

[Imoye]

Boosting should be bannable.

[Priya]

Nope. Clear selling has always been in games. The real problem lies in the ban on parsers and not being able to call anyone out for being bad. Party sucks? Better disband it because we might get reported if we tell Tommy and Timmy to step up their game.

[Devils_Lawyer]

The real problem lies in the ban on parsers and not being able to call anyone out for being bad. Party sucks? Better disband it because we might get reported if we tell Tommy and Timmy to step up their game.

Probably because people wouldnt use it to look for bad players so they can teach them stuff, they would use it to kick/insult/demotivate players so they dont have to deal with them.

[Velox]

And we have this

ban on parsers

because of this

being able to call anyone out for being bad.

You might want to learn how to word your statements better. There is a huge difference between calling people out ala "OMG U SUCK WHM DID MORE DPS THAN U!" and trying to be constructive with "Bill, I see your DPS is a little bit lower than what it should be. Can you explain to me the rotation you're using for this fight and maybe we can sort out what's wrong. Better yet, after this fight let's go to a striking dummy and I can gauge your performance there and help you correct it." The former is EXACTLY why parses are frowned upon.